The only time I have heard of this was on a Discovery 2 TD5 after using some injector cleaner.
The injectors are 'internal' in the head and the cleaner tends to ruin the seal on the injectors causing diesel to go into the oil although this did also cause big running problems.
Probably nothing like your problem, just thinking out loud.
Does the oil smell of diesel at all?

 

Cliff

Thanks for the thought.

From my very limited knowledge, i dont think it smells of diesel. Bu the mechanic says it cant be anything else.

Since getting the car serviced/oil changed i havent used any additives on purpose hoping to eliminate that.

regards

 

usually a sign of impending high pressure fuel pump detonation on a sludger....

the engine will be a write off if it fills with too much fuel in the sump so ide tread very carefully around this dilemma..

 

Thanks DD

Will try and get it done next week and keep fingers crossed in the meantime. It was OK from May to December (i mean the level increased but it didnt run itself to destruction), so will hope i get a few more days out of it.

Do you think the MAF is a red herring?

 

....

 

ive just had same issue
i took it dealership they said the oil level was wrong when i had it changed but it was rising due to the fact it was regening correctly

 

duff MAF oil level rising ive never heard such bollox...

 

Thanks for your candidness DD - appreciated!!!

Could a knackered HPFP cause the juddering symptoms ive experienced?

Thanks for your help

 

wot type of juddering and when exactly?

 

IMHO the maf could cause juddering although a maf cannot produce oil, the rising level will be diesel from one of two sources, the HPFP seal or over frequent DPF regens. Iff you have the software you can monitor the frequency of regens if it is not noticeable. I ran my 530d without a DPF for about 60k miles but didn't map it out. It still went through the regen cycle frequently but didn't increase the oil level

 

DD

Juddering tends to be when engine is warm, and i notice it when in 5th or 6th gear 1100-1200rpm starting to go up a slight gradient and lightly pressing the throttle to attempt to keep the same speed when going up the hill. Rev needle jumps up and down a bit then sorts itself out once i've got a bit more speed up. Am i just not driving the car well and being lazy - should i be dropping down a gear instead, maybe im expecting too much of the car?

Davieb

Unfortunately my DIS for whatever reason (maybe DDE not capable), doesnt show last DPF regen. I get all the other info and can watch the regen taking place, exhaust temps etc.

 

need to deduce is it a missfire engine type of judder? or a drivetrain or loss of traction type of judder?...too difficult to diagnose from the description...


anything like engine mounts, gearbox mounts,propshaft guibo or bearing etc will manifest itself more when accellerating and loading it up with torque...

all common failures on big diesels...

 

DD

On one of the other forums where i also posted asking for advice, a (very helpful) user said he had experienced some juddering and that it was related to the EGR. He suggested i temporarily remove the vacuum hose running to the EGR and block it with something (i used a golf T), in order to bypass the EGR.

Have to say it has made the car feel much better. Faster and smoother low down, no feeling of lag waiting for the turbo then it suddenly kicking in, and i have been unable to recreate the juddering/jerking. Ideally i need to take it on my normal route to work where i know i often experience the issue.

EGR sound plausible to you?

 

Hi! From what I've heard if You drive around the town without blast on a motorway car need to do a DPF regen which in city traffic makes additional amount of fuel. When You turn off the engine in the middle of a regen that additional amount of fuel ends up in oil. Apparently thats the common thing.

 

The EGR valve closes above about 1/4 throttle but doesn't normally cause any rpm fluctuation as it does so. If the DPF was blocked it would cause an increase in exhaust recirculation due to increased back pressure which might cause your symptoms. Your EML light will come on after a while with your vac pipe disconnected but it won't do any harm and will reset itself, after 20 miles or so, once it's reconnected again.

 

Although i appreciate that failed regens can cause the dpf to block, can it really cause excess oil to go in to the sump?

Surely there would be lots of town diesels with so much extra oil in the sump that they all ran themselves to destruction?

 

If the glow plugs are not working, the extra fuel injected during regen doesn't burn fully and can get past the rings into the sump. Because the fuel is not burning, the exhaust does not get hot enough to burn off the soot which stays blocked causing the ECU to keep trying forced regenerations, putting more fuel in the sump. That's the theory, but since your DPF is clear and your plugs OK, it doesn't really fit your case. So your looking at the HP fuel pump.

 

Thanks streetos

What happens to all the people out there who dont realise that they have problems with glow plugs, glow plug controllers or thermostats which is preventing the car from doing a regen. Does the process not start at all so no extra oil goes in to the sump, or are they running around with excess oil also?

This must happen loads.

How much oil is too much?

 

What happens to all the people out there who dont realise that they have problems with glow plugs, glow plug controllers or thermostats which is preventing the car from doing a regen. Does the process not start at all so no extra oil goes in to the sump, or are they running around with excess oil also?

what happens is the oil gets thinned down by the excess diesel and the crank shaft baring's knock (big ends) then you start looking for a new engine

 

inneficient burning of the fuel etc i would expect severe black smoke issues if unburnt fuel and bore wash is happening...mind you a DPF may disguise the dilemma but i would of thought such poor fueling and ignition problems would expose other serious symptoms...it dosent fit the crime to me...summat more serious is filling the sump than iffy glowplugs..modern common rail diesels are such high pressure and our mild climate in the UK they dont actually need glowplugs at all, they can function without them without serious detrimental effects...

 

I've only got an e39 525d auto, so not saying this from experience, but - I'd think that asking it to pull cleanly uphill in 6th from 1000 rpm is asking a lot, even of a big diesel. No?

 

jonbill

You could well be correct, and wondered if it was my lazt driving style.

Within the last few days i had a member on another forum suggest i drive with the EGR valve bypassed, and it has transformed the car low down the rev range. Feeling generally much more responsive off the lights, no lag waiting for the turbo then a sudden woosh, and no matter how hard ive tried, and cant replicate my low down juddering. So fingers crossed its the EGR.

Extra oil in sump still a different matter though :frown

 

Update to my sorry tale and any advice appreciated:

Took the car to the mechanic today who stripped off the fuel pump as planned. He then took it to a local injector specialist who we had booked the pump in with so that they could test it and if necessary repair. I spoke with them last week (as had the mechanic), and their costs were £110 to test the pump and £250 to repair/refurbish. The £110 test cost being knocked off the bill if it did require repair, so just £250 to pay for a refurb.

After a few hours of testing they got back to the mechanic to say there were indeed signs of wear and that in their opinion this was causing my problems, and did we require it repairing - to which obviously the answer was yes which is why we had taken it to them in the first place.

A couple of hours later i get a phone call from the mechanic. "Bad news" he says. They dont have some of the parts required to refurbish 'nor can they get hold of them for at least 1 week if not 2. Their suggestion was that they could source a reconditioned unit from elsewhere, but that the cost for this would be £385, not the original £250. Also because this all happened quite late in the day, and i am being relayed the info 2nd hand via the mechanic, i dont know, and the mechanic doesnt think that the company will take off the cost of the initial test (£110).

This means the fuel pump cost has gone from £250 to £495, and nobody will even say for certain if this will cure the problem. I also still have the mechanics labour charges, and an oil and filter change (even though i only had one done mid december).

The mechanic is caught in the middle a bit here as he has no affiliation with the injector company, and i think he feels pretty bad. He spent until 7pm phoning round trying to get a better price on a recon HPFP, and had managed to get one down to £310 from ECP, but i will still have to add the £110 test cost to this.

Do you guys think this is acceptable, and that i should just suck it up? Personally i feel that the injector specialist company have really balls'd up. If they had given me any indication that they couldnt do all the work as agreed i wouldnt have got the work done at the moment. I feel completely backed in to a corner and dont think there is anything i can do except throw yet more money at the car to try and get it back to a reasonable state. I think they should offer the £110 cost off of the price of a reconditioned unit. What would you do?

Thanks in advance

 

I would say they should waive the test fee since they haven't been able to repair the pump as they indicated they would be able to. You might have to do a lot of ranting/crying/counter banging/ refusing to leave until you've seen the manager type thing to get your way, though.

 

Thanks Streetos

That is my thought/hope to. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

I had the same rising oil level issue a few years back on my 2007 E60 520d M-Sport. The car was in warranty at the time I flagged this up to the dealership but they just removed about 1L of oil from the car and told me to keep an eye on it. I went back to them again about 6 month later with the same high oil level (this time the car was just outside warranty) and they told me it was probably a leaking HPFP and it would cost £1500+ to repair and since the car was out of warranty I would have to pay for this myself. Needless to say, I blew a gasket at this since the car was in warranty when I reported the problem and they basically fobbed me off until the warranty expired. After a lot of shouting and arguing they eventually relented and paid for the part and most of the labor, I had to pay a token payment of about £150.

So, I thought that would be the end of the story, the oil level stopped going up and I forgot about the issue. However, about a year ago I was on the motorway going home and I heard a loud thud coming from the engine and the car lost all power. The recovery truck took it to the local dealership who diagnosed a snapped timing chain. After a £6000 repair, the dealership had no idea what caused the problem but did say that the long term contamination of the engine oil with diesel could have caused sufficient wear and tear to weaken the timing chain. The car only had 58K miles on the clock at the time of the chain snap so I have no other explanation as to why the timing chain would snap on such a low mileage engine.

Moral of the story: Treat engine oil that has been contaminated with diesel more seriously than I did.