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Discussion Starter #1
So, I've had the car 06 650 7 weeks now and cant stop singing its praises. However, got caught at a set of temp traffic lights for some road works heading into work this morning. They took an absolute eternity to change and when I was pulling away I noticed a large plume of blue'ish smoke behind me. Google tells me there is a problem with valve oil seals going. I hope not, as the car only had 4 weeks warranty and I cant afford the bill that this repair would carry.
Further googling and the feeling of impending doom brought me across some posts and information on it also possibly being the PCV valve(s) so an online shopping trip ensued and 2 new valves should arrive in a few days . I will update when fitted and report on if it solves the issue or if I should trade the car in sharpish.
FYI the car has only done 64k miles with a very comprehensive history. so a bit surprised if its the valve oil seals. Other than this mornings smoke the car runs and idles perfectly however is had used about a litre of oil in the past 4-5 weeks.
Has anyone else suffered this and cured it by replacing the PCV's ? should I look for more symptoms ? Ive really fallen for this car but a huge repair bill isnt possible nor are my spanner skills to try it myself.

Worried.:frown:frown:frown
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Very interesting Thomson, like one of the posters TIMM on the thread you directed me to, I dont have smoke from a cold startup either, which may be a good thing.
 

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If you can't stand the suspense, it's a 10 minute job to take things apart and see whether the valves have failed - even if you don't have the parts to replace them immediately.

I also have an '06 650 with similar mileage to yours, and have never seen it burn any oil. Nevertheless, one of the first things I did when I bought the car was to change the valves. If you've got a BMW V8 you can pretty treat them as a service item!
 

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As an aside, I thought 3 months warranty was the minimum?
^^^ This. Although it's not 3 months warranty, you just get 6 months after which you have to prove the fault was there when you bought it, rather than the assumption being that it was there.

Assuming you bought from a dealer, do not pass go, do not collect £200 etc. Just take it to them and get them to fix it. However given that you've bought parts I'm assuming this was a private sale.


And even if it is the valve stem seals, it's really not the end of the world as you can get them done for sub-£2K at an indie with the AGA toolkit. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Still haven't managed time to do this and parts haven't arrived yet - probably be Sunday before I get the chance even if the new PCV's arrive before then. Totally paranoid with the smoke and I cant stay off google reading about all the doom and gloom concerning smoke after idling - doesnt look good or am I just panicking ?
 

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Fingers crossed for you mate that it is the pcv because Timm on here really knows his stuff. I know the feeling with the smoke!!! It feels like everyone is looking at you and I tried to rearrange routes so as I didn't get caught in slow moving traffic or traffic lights!!! Don't worry too much if it is the seals because as was said before a garage with the aga tool will be reasonable I got mine done with all gaskets changed for £1300 and the car is now like brand new. These cars are far to nice to get rid of because of the blue smoke!!!!
 

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Try not to worry, chap.

At your mileage there a strong likelihood that at least one of the crankcase ventilation valves is malfunctioning if they haven't been replaced by a previous owner. Did you take a look through the receipts that came with the car?

Of course, this isn't the same as saying it's not your valve stem seals, but you understand the point I'm trying to make.

The valve stem seals story reminds me of the mass-anxiety that surrounded the infamous Nikasil issue that BMW had with some of its engines a few years ago. The cylinder linings failed on some engines, and as a result as soon as anyone saw a puff of blue smoke coming from one of these engines or they displayed poor compression, the cry of "Nikasil" went up and people started running around in a panic in the style of villagers in an old Frankenstein film. I recall several BMW dealers were actually burned at the stake by vigilante groups carrying lighted torches.

No disrespect whatsoever to the guys who've suffered (and fixed) stem seal problems, but I wonder if the internet can sometimes give the impression that the problem is more common than it actually is.
 

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Yeah your right it is a lot of cash !!! The blow was softened for me a little because the first diagnosis I got was a hole in the block( which it wasn't!!!!) from BMW and a nice little quote of £13.5k to fix. So getting back on the road by just fixing valve stem seals was sweet!!!!!!! I'm going to stop now because I feel as if I'm not helping your doom and gloom!!!! So fingers crossed for the pcv's. I got a few months out of adding an oil additive although I'm sure everyone on the forum would scream don't put that sh1t in your engine.apparently if your seals are rigid it will soften them and tighten the seal but if they are damaged it has little or no effect. ( I'm waiting for the forum police to shoot me for that advice but hey I was in your position and was willing to try anything)
 

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+1 for what rupes just said there.(like Timm another very knowledgable and reliable poster)...when I got the seals done they also replaced other gaskets and seals and some other stuff that I can't remember but which is another thread I posted in about this issue. So it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the problem was fixed as they were drilling down to get to the stem seals and they may not have needed replaced at all... the only problem for those of us that have no mechanical knowledge at all is we can't afford to sort various ' might be ' scenarios one at a time. It's cheaper to let a good garage start at the well publicised cause and work back covering all bases with the one trip....
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks guys feeling a little better. For what its worth travelled home last night 10 miles no stoppages other than the usual traffic lights (60-90 secs) - no smoke. Drive into work this morning, no major idling points , and the temp traffic lights at the roadworks that take forever ( and where I was first alerted to my blue plumes ), well I just turned the engine off until the lights went green, no smoke. So just after prolonged idling although I reckon thats about 5+ mins from my experience. Still no parcels from the postman. I guess you guys are right about panicking over whats read on internet forums, you mostly only hear the bad and nightmare stories.
Current frame of mind, well Im due to change the car in Dec so anther 9 months, if the PCV's dont cure it Im happy to nurse it those 9 months and just turn off at any prolonged delays. For what its worth it doesnt smoke in stop start \ crawling traffic either.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Been looking through the history paperwork I got with the car and in 2015 a "Rocker cover vent kit" was replaced, PCV's ? Hope not as that would lessen my chances of an inexpensive fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Look what I found today. One like this and one like brand new.
Hopefully get the new ones tomorrow and hopefully this sorts my problems

IMG_0220 new.jpg
IMG_0221new.jpg
 

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Well done, Sir.

How many Rocker Cover Vent Kits were listed on the invoice? Perhaps they only replaced one, bless 'em.

When you fit the new ones, don't be alarmed if you still see some blue smoke for a while. It might take a few miles for the oil that's already got into the intake system to clear.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks Rupes, fingers crossed however I'm at a loss as to what it does how it works and why it's needed. I assume it works on a vacuum and closes off the centre vent hole in the housing, but why? Why not just bock it off ? I don't get it . Can someone explain in idiot terms how it works and why something so simple can look so bad when it goes wrong ?
 

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The short answer is that the system is supposed to maintain a pressure differential in the crankcase relative to the intake system so that crankcase emissions get drawn into the intake manifold and burnt, instead of venting to atmosphere like they used to in the good old days of 4-star leaded fuel, smog, and respiratory diseases.

Unfortunately it's not very reliable, and when the system fails, oil (rather than crankcase gases) get drawn into the intake along with unmetered fresh air. Neither are good news, obviously.

Check this out:

Timm's BMW M60, M62, M62TUB and N62TUB V8 Engines - PCV, PRV and OSV

BMW, whilst doggedly refusing to admit that it's a terrible idea (along with run-flat tyres, mapped thermostats, etc), have helpfully moved the valves to a much more accessible position, which is their way of admitting that they'll probably fail on a regular basis.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So 2 new PCV's fitted this morning from BMW, let it idle for 5 mins, plumes of blue smoke. Let's hope it's just residue in the system burning off. Nervous .
 
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