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I have been having problems with the brake discs since I bought the car back in 2015. In September 2015 the brakes were juddering and BMW Sytner Coventry replaced them under the parts warranty as it was under 2 years, a few weeks later they started to judder again and i took it back to BMW and they fobbed me off and said i had to spend thousands doing tests.

I then took it to Rybrook BMW in Warwick and they again replaced them under the warranty. Then in January 2016 i took the car back again as it was having the same problem , they made me change the alloy, back discs , tires and also changed the front discs at a total cost of £1660.85.

A few Months later it started again, so in September 2016 when i took it for a service they changed both the discs of the front and back under the warranty again. a month later it was there again i was so fed up i did int even bother going back until my next mot which was done by them and passed on the 3rd April 2017.

I asked them to check the breaks again and they wanted £100 odd pounds plus vat to do a run test and also sent out a mechanic with me on a road test. I agreed to paying the cost as the back discs were under warranty, they got back to me saying the discs have faulty due to me having it washed! (so now they are telling me i cant wash my car how ridiculous. i have been driving for over 12 years and never heard such a thing in my life or experienced a problem with breaks. The last set have only been on there since September and done only 5k miles but the problem started after a few hundred miles. my car is still with the dealer and i am annoyed to even go back to pick it up.
 

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I would love to hear the explanation of how washing the car has messed up the brakes. Just the thought of seeing someone standing in front of me and saying something like that whilst keeping a straight face is priceless in itself.

There's a thread somewhere in the open forum or up one of the upper levels recording the various fairy tales and rip-off stories from BMW main dealers. This one definitely belongs in there.
 

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I would love to hear the explanation of how washing the car has messed up the brakes. Just the thought of seeing someone standing in front of me and saying something like that whilst keeping a straight face is priceless in itself.

There's a thread somewhere in the open forum or up one of the upper levels recording the various fairy tales and rip-off stories from BMW main dealers. This one definitely belongs in there.
So many places like this unfortunately

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BMW F11 Brake Judder

Hi

I wonder if you ever found a solution to this problem?

I bought my 2011 BMW 520d M Sport F11, in 2016.

The car drove perfectly until somebody drove into the car at a traffic light stop in April 2017 with a trailer, damaging the front passenger side alloy wheel.
Due to the damage, which was a chunk out of the 19" 351 alloy at the front only - and no other damage, I decided to have the alloy repaired, and had all 4 powder coated as one new alloy would have looked strange on a 6 year old car.

The brakes and discs were due for change shortly after, so I had a new set of Brembo brakes and discs for front and rear around a month after the powder coating. Around 800 miles later I started to get a judder from braking at any speed driving downhill and on the motorway at high speed. Driving uphill, I could never feel the judder.
The car would brake and stop but the vibration coming through the chassis and then through the steering got worse until it was unbearable.
So I went back to my trusted specialist who changed the brakes and discs under warranty, with no charge.
The car drove perfect for another 800 miles approx until the problem started again.

I then went back to him, he suggested that the brakes/discs could be a faulty batch, so he changed the brand to Pagit, and another 1000 miles approx later, same problem again.

I could not find a solution and the varied responses on forums led me to then have the car diagnosed by BMW (£335 pounds) and they advised the car needs new front hubs, new brakes and discs all around and possibly a full new set of alloy wheels due to powder coating. I had the powder coating done at an extremely reputable firm called wheelrepairs.co.uk and actually went to their workshop with the diagnosis from BMW.
They took out a complimentary review of all 4 wheels and identified no problems with the wheels. They said the powder coating was industry standard, the wheels are not buckled, and the inner centre of the wheels was not even touched with powder coat material, so there was no way the wheels could cause the issue. This surprised me as the issue only occured after the powder coating was done and no other work has caused the issue. My other concern was that the issue is resolved by a new set of brakes and discs, but then returns after several hundred miles of driving which tells me that something is causing a new set of parts (like brakes and discs) to become faulty each time.

Anyways, I took it back to my own specialist who suggested to change the hubs, which we have done.
The problem has not gone away and I just do not know what it could be.

The wheels have been balanced, brand new tyres for the MOT in October, the car drives absolutely fine and on the motorway its a pleasure to drive, but when you brake, the shudder just does my head in.

Has anybody had anything similar, and what did you do to correct it?
Can it really be that powder coating alloy wheels can cause sufficient heat to have an impact on the brakes/discs?
I want to refrain from having to get a new set of alloy wheels, and if need be, will just sell the car as the expense is not worth it. Never had any problems with my E60, thought the F11 would be a good upgrade but this is just causing me more issues than its worth.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all
 

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you need to check the suspension components as its probably taken a hit from the accident.

lower front tension / control arms / tie rod ends are most likely the culprits.
 

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F10 brake judder

Hi all,, new to this forum.

I was wondering if the gent who started this thread about his brake judder issues has managed to get a resolution to this problem.

I am presently having the same issues with a 2013 520d F10.

Really interested.

Good forum by the way..........:thumbsup
 

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Had a very similar issue on my E46 which was a nightmare to diagnose.

We went through everything from flexis, calipers, multiple discs and pads. Turned out to be the Non OEM brake pad retaining springs which were holding the pads very slightly against the disc all the time. The pressure was very slight (you could spin the wheel by hand off the ground although it wouldn't spin for very long which was a clue). At low speeds you would never have known there was an issue, but at higher speeds the constant light pressure was enough to heat the discs up to the point where using them would then result in brake judder and eventual warping.

Generally, discs don't just warp so warping should be considered a syptom rather than an underlying problem. The list of potential underlying causes for brake judder is long, but some common ones to rule out:
- Hanging calipers (ie pistons getting stuck).
- Failing flexi hoses (the inners degrade and can act as a one way valve for brake fluid resulting in hanging caliper symptoms)
- Suspension issues (play in inner/outer track rods ends, lower control arms bushing or ball joint play).
- Steering issues (play in linkages - but generally these exacerbate the feeling of existing brake judder)
 

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Had a very similar issue on my E46 which was a nightmare to diagnose.

We went through everything from flexis, calipers, multiple discs and pads. Turned out to be the Non OEM brake pad retaining springs which were holding the pads very slightly against the disc all the time. The pressure was very slight (you could spin the wheel by hand off the ground although it wouldn't spin for very long which was a clue). At low speeds you would never have known there was an issue, but at higher speeds the constant light pressure was enough to heat the discs up to the point where using them would then result in brake judder and eventual warping.

Generally, discs don't just warp so warping should be considered a syptom rather than an underlying problem. The list of potential underlying causes for brake judder is long, but some common ones to rule out:
- Hanging calipers (ie pistons getting stuck).
- Failing flexi hoses (the inners degrade and can act as a one way valve for brake fluid resulting in hanging caliper symptoms)
- Suspension issues (play in inner/outer track rods ends, lower control arms bushing or ball joint play).
- Steering issues (play in linkages - but generally these exacerbate the feeling of existing brake judder)
Still in the process of trying to find the problem. Poor really for this supposed premium brand of car. Annoyed to say the least. I will investigate the springs for issues. I did reuse the original ones by removing them carefully without damaging them. My wheels spin freely for about 2 turns .. me plan is to remove disks and inspect friction area for uniformity. Only done 1000 miles brembo s too. Will check runout also.

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I has similar problems with my 535d MSport. It can be very hard to diagnose but worth making sure that the guide pins are good as new, well lubed and that their movement is not being impeded by corrosion on the inside of the slide pin holes in the calipers. You need to remove the rubbers to check this and ideally clean the holes gently with a drill and a slender wire brush attachment. This made a big difference to mine after changing everything the same as you. Also look at the front wishbone rubber bushes carefully. These are heavy cars and they take a pounding......a common issue if they are worn at all.

Not recommended for the open road, but you can use a good quality brake hose clamp on the flexi pipes to shut off one brake at a time and give it a test drive to see which brake is causing the issue.

Someone else on here found out that it was worn wheel bearings that were causing their issue. They had the issue, replaced the bearings and it went away only to return. Then they found out that the replacement non-OEM bearings were cr*p. Changed them out and that sorted it.

Good luck.
 

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BMW F11 Brake Judder

Hi

I wonder if you ever found a solution to this problem?

I bought my 2011 BMW 520d M Sport F11, in 2016.

The car drove perfectly until somebody drove into the car at a traffic light stop in April 2017 with a trailer, damaging the front passenger side alloy wheel.
Due to the damage, which was a chunk out of the 19" 351 alloy at the front only - and no other damage, I decided to have the alloy repaired, and had all 4 powder coated as one new alloy would have looked strange on a 6 year old car.

The brakes and discs were due for change shortly after, so I had a new set of Brembo brakes and discs for front and rear around a month after the powder coating. Around 800 miles later I started to get a judder from braking at any speed driving downhill and on the motorway at high speed. Driving uphill, I could never feel the judder.
The car would brake and stop but the vibration coming through the chassis and then through the steering got worse until it was unbearable.
So I went back to my trusted specialist who changed the brakes and discs under warranty, with no charge.
The car drove perfect for another 800 miles approx until the problem started again.

I then went back to him, he suggested that the brakes/discs could be a faulty batch, so he changed the brand to Pagit, and another 1000 miles approx later, same problem again.

I could not find a solution and the varied responses on forums led me to then have the car diagnosed by BMW (£335 pounds) and they advised the car needs new front hubs, new brakes and discs all around and possibly a full new set of alloy wheels due to powder coating. I had the powder coating done at an extremely reputable firm called wheelrepairs.co.uk and actually went to their workshop with the diagnosis from BMW.
They took out a complimentary review of all 4 wheels and identified no problems with the wheels. They said the powder coating was industry standard, the wheels are not buckled, and the inner centre of the wheels was not even touched with powder coat material, so there was no way the wheels could cause the issue. This surprised me as the issue only occured after the powder coating was done and no other work has caused the issue. My other concern was that the issue is resolved by a new set of brakes and discs, but then returns after several hundred miles of driving which tells me that something is causing a new set of parts (like brakes and discs) to become faulty each time.

Anyways, I took it back to my own specialist who suggested to change the hubs, which we have done.
The problem has not gone away and I just do not know what it could be.

The wheels have been balanced, brand new tyres for the MOT in October, the car drives absolutely fine and on the motorway its a pleasure to drive, but when you brake, the shudder just does my head in.

Has anybody had anything similar, and what did you do to correct it?
Can it really be that powder coating alloy wheels can cause sufficient heat to have an impact on the brakes/discs?
I want to refrain from having to get a new set of alloy wheels, and if need be, will just sell the car as the expense is not worth it. Never had any problems with my E60, thought the F11 would be a good upgrade but this is just causing me more issues than its worth.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks all
Hi all,

I've had a very similar issue with my 2011 BMW 7 series (F01)...

Had the alloys refurbed early 2019 (acid dipped, sand blasted and power coated etc) and since then I have been through 4 sets or brake discs! They only last around 1500 miles before you begin to feel steering wheel judder whilst braking and it gets progressively worse over time. It has gone to BMW for the work and they have replaced the brake calipers, brake carriers and brake arm reactors. Now given the issue is still not fixed, BMW have diagnosed the refurbed alloys as the cause of the issue saying that the paint on them is too thick and therefore not allowing the hear to disperse and hence causing the brake discs to warp.

I have spoken to a number of garages and wheel refurbishment companies and every single one of them have said that they have never come across the issue before and that refurbed alloys would not cause this issue.

I'm not sure its a coincidence that the issue started after having the alloys refurbed especially after this post too. Any thoughts on what could be causing the issue? Or suggestion on next steps? BMW have suggested that a set of 4 brand new alloys will fix the issue and have quoted circa £3.5k which is a complete joke!
 

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Does it judder at all times or under harder braking only? I'm wondering if this might be ABS related in some way. I can't see the powder coating having any effect on that system though.

The explanation of the power-coating affecting the heat dissipation in the discs sounds somewhat far-fetched. The heat dissipation for a disc-based system does not depend on conduction through the wheel hub into the wheel rim. This would be more of a consideration in a drum-style disc perhaps but certainly not here.

What I suggest you try as a potential method of ruling out the discs is to replace your stock items with drilled options. These will be noisier but they have better heat dissipation. The main point is that they will be markedly different to your standard disks so if the judder returns then the indication is the source of the problem is not the discs.
 

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Does it judder at all times or under harder braking only? I'm wondering if this might be ABS related in some way. I can't see the powder coating having any effect on that system though.

The explanation of the power-coating affecting the heat dissipation in the discs sounds somewhat far-fetched. The heat dissipation for a disc-based system does not depend on conduction through the wheel hub into the wheel rim. This would be more of a consideration in a drum-style disc perhaps but certainly not here.

What I suggest you try as a potential method of ruling out the discs is to replace your stock items with drilled options. These will be noisier but they have better heat dissipation. The main point is that they will be markedly different to your standard disks so if the judder returns then the indication is the source of the problem is not the discs.
Cheers and thanks for the info. The judder is present at all speeds when braking but more so at faster speeds. It’s strange that OEM brakes would keep warping though as basically it says that they are not designed for the car which you’d say is a major issue!
 

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I'll fall off my chair in shock if it transpires to be the wheel refurb causing overheat...

Jack it up and see if the fronts free wheel properly or whether the pad is in gentle but constant contact with the disc. If it is in contact (ie you only get a couple of free turns) then it will be enough to heat the discs up at speed and cause judder/warping. If so, then we're into diagnosing why the calipers are hanging which is a whole new subject but is at least further forward diagnostically speaking!

The above may sound trite/obvious for which apologies, but three attempts with a main dealer failed to find mine - it was eventually cracked by my local independent.
 

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Take the discs off and wire brush the hubs. Any dirt between the hub and disc then the new disc does not sit properly. That’s why your getting the shudder.
 

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I also have this problem braking down from about 50 > 30mph. And, coincidentally started to happen about four months and about 3000 miles after I had my wheels refurbed and sprayed black. Car does not vibrate whilst driving, only upon braking, which would surely rule out a drive shaft, wheel, tyre or wheel bearing?

When I mentioned this to service at BMW when I took my GF's car in, first thing the service guy said is have the wheels been painted???? He said doesn't matter about the whole wheel but the flange where it meets the wheel hub must be metal to metal contact to aid heat transfer from the hub which gets very hot into the wheel that helps dissipate it. Funny enough, when car is cold first thing in the morning and first time I have to brake, the shudder is very much less.

So I had all wheels off and there was a bit of overspray paint from the wheel refurb on the wheel but not much. Just to be sure, I wire-wooled it to bare metal (likewise gently the wheel hub) and tried again but shudder still there. Mentioned this to dealer and he say the heat could have damaged the disks. The problem is, this is an expensive business to fix and change parts on the fly and find the newly changed part didn't cure it. My car has the same 19" 255 wheels/tyres on the front and rthe ear so I am going to swap the wheels from back to front to see if that helps. I even have a spare set of 19" wheels from my Z4 that I could swap over for a bit and 100% eliminate the wheels of the 5'er.

In the recent (UK) very wet wether (inside that 3000 miles I mentioned at top of this post) a couple of times I have had to drive slowly through 6" deep water. Wonder if that could have warped the disks? Surely they are made out of more robust stuff than that though??

Funny enough, I read an article where is said take the car out on a quiet road and do several hard but firm brakes down from 50mph to 10mph and repeat that six or seven times to "reseat" the brakes. After that., I have found the shudder is less than it was. not fixed though. This would imply disks being re-bedded in?
 

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I have an f10 520d. 2013. 87000miles on it now. Suffered from this. Fixed. Comes back. Nightmare. It's the front brakes not the back. Proved this. Basically after 800 to 1500 miles the pads appear to glaze over and they give the shudder on light braking from 90 down to 20 or less. It comes and goes. Jump on the brakes from 70 down to 20 and the judder will reduce. When cold they are at worst. I have tried brembo disks and pads. BTW the brembo pads are shocking. Worst shudder . Best pads for minimal shudder are Eicher. Pagid are reasonably good. Whether you have brembo or BMW or eicher disks, after a new set of disks and pads , shudder reappears after about 1000 miles. I have removed the pads and took the glaze off with rough Emery paper, stuck them back in , gave a disks a quick rub both side with Emery. Problem fixed,,, for say 1000 miles... I blame the crappy big front single piston caliper. My next move is to see what 2 piston BMW caliper I can fit. Whether I drive like a hearse or a nutter, the shudder always come back. It runs a great car...
 

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more often than not,,its control arm bushed that are shot,,had it 3 times on 3 bmw cars over last 5 years,,new control arms fixed,,,try moving very slowly with someone walking beside the car,,jab the brakes,,see if the front wheel jumps forward in arch a little
 
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