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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all!
I am currently in the process of getting rid of all my pug 205 cars and spares e.t.c to save up for my 316i compact rally build.
its going to be a 'fun' car, not to be 100% competative, just to turn up and have a laff kind of car. hence the RWD :-D
ive got myself a silver 316i e36 compact auto for the tidy shell, and it was local enough.
i intend to fit the m44? engine the 1.9 16v? from the z3/318si? forgive me but im not too up on my bmw engine codes and models.
anyway, this is my plan for the car (pics to follow soon)
e36 compact shell, convert to manual with e36 m3 6 speed box, z3 engine, msa roll cage, seats, harnesses e.t.c
sump, tank, diff guard.
mk2 escort rear turret mounts for better rear suspension options.
LSD, and lower final drive, something like a 4.8:1

I have a couple of questions
1. what ratio would my final drive be at the moment?
2. is the 6 speed m3 box the best way to go? i dont want it to be hell driving to events at 5000rmp doing 50mph :-D
3.is it possible to fit the e30 lsd and large diff casing?
4. are these stronger?
5. from what bmw can i get a nice low final drive?

i have searched quite a bit, but i can't really find definative answers.
I dont want to go and buy a load of parts and only half of them actually fit :)
thank you
Tom.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
also, for the rear suspension, i intend to weld group 4 escort turret extensions to the arches and mount some large bilstein dampers on the back, maybe coilovers.
not too sure what to do for the front, i may have to adapt escort group 4 stuff again.
 

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The m3 diff wont fit i dint belive, even if it did the ratios would be all wrong.... your talking about aking 140hp 1.9 to do a 3.0 300hp hauling job.

realy for rally its all about high rpms and keeping the power there? not having it 'boggy' and low?

and youl need a small case lsd for your subframe...which unfortanatly are quite rare and expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
all e30 diffs fit i believe.
I have decided against destroying the auto as it is mint and my dad has started driving around in it!

the auto's come with a 4.4 final drive, so i need to get hold of one of these to go in my recent 1999 316 1.9 8v compact sport! im going to do without an lsd for a while, see what its like for now with a open diff.

HHMS have clubman spec roll cages available from £350 and i can weld it in myself, along with some custom seat mounts direct to the floor, cobra buckets and sabelt harnesses from my 205's
328i front struts will stiffen it up a bit and give me a little more ground clearance up front, a mk2 escort sump guard will fit easily with some small fabrication.
I need to sort out some rear suspension and brake upgrades, may just leave rear as standard with hydraulic handbrake, bias valve and braided hoses with the copper lines inside (along with fuel lines) up front brake wise i am either going to find something bigger oem, or fit uprated pads along with the braided hoses. and de-abs the car saving weight but also abs is dangerous on gravel!
a pair of big spot lamps, some sort of induction filter kit, and a custom exhaust system with skids welded in place to prevent the bottom of the boxes catching on rocks e.t.c and ripping the exhaust off! 4 big red mud flaps and some under body protection.
interior is going to be removed as far as the dash. some door cards made up and maybe some poly windows if budget allows. spare wheel removed, and battery and spare bolted down in the boot space.

watch this space for pics soon!
 

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Awesome project, would love to see pics :)

To touch on a few points...

Rear suspension : you said about putting on different turrets etc I would be careful with this one. At present the springs mount on the wishbones and then onto a strong point of the shell. IF you convert that to coilovers your putting all the wight though to the turrets, that it self is not a problem if your going to replace that section and beef it up BUT i would be worried about the other end as you will be putting all the wight though a part of the wishbone thats not designed to take so much pressure, you may need to do some work here to beef up the hubs to on that section.

Diff options, for a small engined BMW you maybe pushed for a LSD, I belive the E30 ones that fit are higher ratios ( maybe wrong here! ) so you will be looking for a 1.9 manual or a auto Diff for the shorter ratio. There was a compact 1.9 mtec? that came with a led duno the ratio though and finding one maybe an issue!

Protip for the rear.. buy a z3 or Compact TI rear beam for the disc brakes :) Also check out my build thread for some pics of my front brakes... M3 discs wiith Alfa 166 brembo calipers :)

Final point.. 6 speed box? probably cheaper and easier for a standard 5 speed ( if the car is just for fun )
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
@fil2efly
I now have a manual 316i 1.9 car to use instead of the auto. Im sticking with the stock engine and box for now.... I have a habit of starting something big i.e gti6 205 engine swaps and end up giving up! so I have got this manual 1.9 for that reason!
I believe the e36 box's have a 1:1 top gear, so a 4.4 auto final drive (cwp) from an auto ti should let me use the small amount of 8v power effectively, first gear may be a little short but its trial and error, I dont know anyone who road rallys them, most people around here are using escorts, mk2 golfs and 205s.
discs on the back are a must for me, not a fan of drums at all!
m3 front conversion was an idea, and i have read your thread a while ago. but i need something i can fit 14"/15" wheels over for tyre choice and again to help with the lack of power.
Rally Car Parts, Roll Cages from Harry Hockly Motorsport the cage i am planning on using is a MSA cert one, with the bars going through the bulkhead to the strut tops (apparently a weak point) theese will also be re-enforced and a universal door bar roll cage tube fitted between the strut tops to act as a super strong brace!. cage also welds to the rear turrets. should stiffen the car up tenfold, and it incorporates a horizontal bar behind the main hoop to fix the harnesses to.
I will be sticking with the e30 type back end, if i find i need extra damper height i shall extend the turrets, and fix the cage to them for more strength, but i will leave the springs where they are, like you say the trailing arms are designed that way!
lsd is out of the window for now, I will be keeping eyes peeled and researching a 4.4 cwp lsd to fit. but the main focus is getting the car quicker off the line, top speed is irrelevant (dont plan on doing more than 90mph on the back lanes in the dark! )
also a TI rear anti roll bar as mine doesnt have one! and maybe a 328i front arb but i usually prefer no anti roll abr at the front, but thats on fwd ;-)
thanks for your interest, good pics on there way.
 

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FYI, Few bits that may be of intrest to you..

This is the polly bush kit i bought : Strong-Flex.eu - Elastomery w motoryzacji i przemy
Very cheap compared to proflex etc and in my opinion very good quality! When i first drove my compact as a standard 316 oh my it was very boat like! But even with what i have on it feels very positive and firm without being crashy that said the back end on mine is perhaps a little firm, feels like it wants to skip when pushing it around corners so playing around with springs slightly softer springs on the back with good dampers to get it to sit down would be something i would look at if i was racing it.

Probably a good call with the box and diff to start with they are easy enough to change out if needed. What about using a welded rear diff? there seems to be a few people using welded diffs on every day cars with no issues, small case diffs are fairly cheap so perhaps something to try out?

You may wish to look towards some kind of weight saving.. not sure what you can cut off but the bare shells are fairly heavy! My complete car comes in at 1250Kg, to be fair mine is a road car with interior etc but still. Compared to a pug or a fiesta thats in the smal class you may struggle on that point.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I need to read into the regs for road rallying to find out about interior, carpets, roof lining,e.t.c and what has to stay and what can go. the roll cage is going to add about 50kg and some of it is quite high up! weight saving is a must, i need to find out if i can use poly windows, and fibreglass panels to get rid of some weight. sunroof will be removed and welded up.
this is why i intend to fit the auto diff, becuase its going to be weighed down quite a bit.
road rallying at my novice level is more about not getting lost and keeping time between sections. so for now i want to get the car reliable and safe, but removing the odd kg here and there is only going to help!
ive looked into the cross brace and i have ordered a used one off a z3, this should stiffen it up quite a bit up front, and it makes a nice place to fit my custom sump guard! I will be replacing most bushes with the kit you posted. does the compact sport have firmer suspension?
a welded diff i think is going to be a pain, there are a lot of low speed super tight junctions that require the handbrake to get around, and trying to manouver a rwd car with a welded diff quite slowly around tight corners is going to end in tears due to the front wanting to go streight on, and i dont intend to be going sideways all night, as with the small amount of power available it will be hard work to keep the wheels spun up... and my rear quaters are going to get quite familiar with the hedges and banks! :-(
 

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I seem to recall that the compact m-tec has different suspension but whats on it i dont know. This will be your friend for parts finding : RealOEM.com   Online BMW Parts Catalog

Fair point about the diff!

On the note of the handbrake... They are useless! Well they work as a hand brake but unless your built like Arny you will have issues pulling good handbrake turns slowly on tarmac. I would recommend looking into fitting another set of calipers to the back and fitting a 2nd handbrake lever. I saw someone on this forum talking about a kit to do this to a z3. Something like this : Massive's rear hydraulic handbrake adapter - R3VLimited Forums
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the heads up, I am well aware of how useless cable handbrakes are. Ive got plenty of experience in plumbing in and using hydraulic handbrakes. I just need to look into being able to use a vertical fly off handbrake ala modern wrc type as well as the standard, or whether i need to use the existing lever and modify it to work a master cylinder as well as the cables.
This is plumbed into the brake pipe going to the rear, so its just like slamming your foot on the pedal, just only the rears come on though ;-) superb and effortless handbrakes!
Thanks for the links!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Looks like the M sport ones have uprated dampers and springs, as well as front and rear anti roll bars. mine is just a 316i sport so normal boatyness for me :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Have just ordered ti rear arb, along with auto ti 4.4 diff ( could even have lsd :) ) 4 mud flaps and brackets, sun strip, bonnet pins, boot spring clips, braided hoses and some rocker switches. should keep me buisy for a day or too!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You've got CR Mtech in Shrewsbury if you need fancy parts or advice, as he's built a few rally compacts.
I have heard about him, but didn't know he had made any rally bmw's. thought it was all track stuff. Thanks for that!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Got home today to find a diff shaped parcel left for me, along with a rear arb!

Got the diff out of the wrapping and turned the input shaft, worked out it is a 4.4 cwp like advertised, then i noticed both output shafts where turning the same way :)

if i turn either left or right hand shaft, the other turns the same way.... unless i turn it harshly, then it turns the opposit way. so is this an lsd? the metal tag has fallen off so no way of telling by looking at the casing.
but at least ive got my 4.4 diff, top speed will be 96mph on the limiter :) 0-60.......? a lot less than standard :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
At least i know now! I should manage without one for now, There is plenty of time to save up for a quaiff kit anyhow, I dont think the bmw lsd would have lasted very long anyway!
 
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