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2007 320D 177BHP engine died and will not restart

6K views 28 replies 9 participants last post by  1Animal1 
#1 ·
103K miles, no previous problems with engine. driving home christmas eve after work and just exiting a roundabout at around 20mph and car looses all power and stalls. nothing indicated on the checks via the stalk, engine turns over but will not "fire" and the yellow engine check light then comes on. I fear this may be the terminal swirl flap problem I've read about or the snapped timing chain? Just happened so suddenly without warning which makes me think it's a biggy? Anyone any clues before I write BMW a open cheque to get it repaired.:frown
 
#4 ·
tried to look down the oil filler with a torch, can't see camshafts spinning when cranking. Best price so far £2500 but can't do for 3 weeks (has 2 waiting already with same problem)
Have sent an email to BMW customer service but reading previous responses don't hold out much hope......
 
#6 ·
Reply received from BMW "customer service"

Thank you for your further email dated December 29, 2012 and for providing me with the information that I requested in my initial response. Firstly, I would like to reiterate the apology contained in my previous email; I can certainly appreciate the concern this has caused you, especially as the fault presented itself on Christmas Eve.

I acknowledge that you have received information from third party repairers which has led you to believe that failure of the timing chain is a common defect with BMWs. However, I can assure you that this is not the case. BMW collates failure reports and part orders from our network of BMW Approved Dealerships around the world, data that third parties have no access to. As a result of this, they can often misrepresent a potential situation. I have checked these systems and can assure you that no inherent defect exists with the timing chains used in our vehicles.

BMW cannot definitively state that a fault will not become apparent at some point in a vehicle’s lifetime. This is the reason that we provide all new BMWs with a 3 year Dealer Warranty. Upon expiration of this policy, customers are given the opportunity of purchasing an Insured Warranty; thereby extending protection against unforeseen mechanical and electrical faults. Should a customer choose not to purchase this additional policy, they automatically assume responsibility for any repair costs and BMW UK is under no obligation to assist with these.

As a responsible manufacturer, BMW UK does of course have polices in place where financial assistance can be offered when no valid warranty policy is effect. However, I am sure you can appreciate that assistance of this nature is given at our discretion and does not mean that we have admitted that a fault exists. There must also be guidelines to this policy and limits are placed on a vehicle’s age and mileage. It is with regret that, as your vehicle has covered approximately 103,000 miles, your BMW is outside of our goodwill parameters and we will not offer financial assistance for the replacement of the timing chain.

I am sorry that this is not the response that you had hoped to receive. However, I trust that you can understand our position. If I can be of any further assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely

BMW UK
Stewart Darley
Customer Service Executive
Ellesfield Avenue
Bracknell RG12 8TA

Typically what I expected TBH. I will try and find an address for the German HQ and ask the question about "quality engineering"
 
#7 ·
you could try vosa, there is a form on their website.
i had a vw passat before getting a 320d on the passat there was a common problem with the injectors failing, many owners had complained without sucess then just one owner got in touch with vosa who then got in touch with vw. vw agreed to replace all the injectors and injector loom f.o.c
even after this owners were getting turned down from vw for this work if they tried to sort it without vosa, i tried on my own and got no where, i then tried through vosa and hey presto i got 4 new injectors and loom (£2500) f.o.c.
my passat was an 07 plate out of warranty and with over 140 k on it and there was no problems with the old injectors anyway
on your form with vosa make a referance to this site and give them as much info as possible and point out that it is a saftey concern as if the chain was to snap at 70 mph in the outside lane it would not be too pretty
worth a try and free of charge
i believe vosa have the powers to make manufactures do this and even a complete recall.
good look
 
#8 ·
Vosa don't have powers over manufacturers and cannot make them recall anything,, what exactly are you after ?? BMW providing and fitting a brand new engine ? I know it's unfortunate but the car has done 100000 miles !! That's the price you pay when you run cars that have been round the clock, nothing lasts forever, it's a machine, it doesn't matter who's made it, it will wear out and break. Saying the chain could have snapped at 70 mph and that would have been dangerous ain't going to make the slightest bit of difference, if I go out to my car now and it has a puncture do I get onto Dunlop and say that could have happened at 70 mph and been dangerous... Think you are going to have to bite the bullet,, don't get me wrong I do sympthasise with you but it's just one of those things, if my turbo pops or engine blows at 92 k it's just bad luck .
 
#10 ·
I disagree that's its just bad luck as it seems that if you have an early 177 bhp engine built before mid 2008 then its a case of when the chain snaps and not if. they are aware of this but wont admit it. timing chains are designed to last the life of the engine not just 100k. who would buy a bmw if they knew that at some point they will have spend at least 3k on replacing a timing chain that does not even get an inspection during bmw's service schedule.
vosa have a lot more clout than your average owner so if anyone can get bmw to sort this problem out its vosa, it may take a lot more complaints before they get bmw to sort the issue out but its worth doing
people buy a bmw believing they are going to get quality and a car that will outlast others
 
#11 ·
Course there are going to be faults with any piece of machinery be it a bad design, manufacturing fault or sub standard materials used or even poor assembly....at the end of the day what is the "life of an engine" ... Going back 30 yrs they were bolloxed at 50-60k.. Rebores, o/s pistons, crank reground etc etc... I know we now have better machining, better materials etc and they are lasting longer but nobody will tell me otherwise that 20-25k between oil changes is the cause of the vast majorities of failures. If you have a fully services BMW with 100k on the clock it will have had its oil changed 4 times, 5 at the max.... And you wonder why they are bolloxed ?? How many revolutions has that turbo done in 25 k ? Must be trillions of trillions, with the blade tips spinning at speeds near the sound barrier and oil like piss lubricating it.... And don't give me the modern oils can last that long bo@@@@ks.
 
#12 ·
I completely agree with more oil changes and im sure if the oil was changed every 10 k then there would be far fewer turbo failures, but I don't think this would prevent the timing chain/spocket failure from happening, but I'm no mechanic so may be wrong.
would interesting to know if there is a way of checking the chain and sprocket
 
#13 ·
Depends on the cause of the failure, if its the guides that wear, possibly down to a lubrication issue, then this causes the chain to become slack, that can cause excessive wear on the sprockets and knacker them so every time you start up the chain is being "snatched" and weakening. Could be poor quality materials that the sprockets are made of, poor case hardening or tempering, and I believe the crank sprocket is welded to the crank thus needing a new crank ?? Wtf it that about....a blob of weld to save on milling a slot an fitting a woodruff key !! Don't matter what make of car it is it all revolves around cheapness and profit !
 
#16 ·
Depends on the cause of the failure, if its the guides that wear, possibly down to a lubrication issue, then this causes the chain to become slack
Alan, it is a known design fault, the main crankshaft sprocket had a machining fault that caused the chain to wear and weaken. Also the sprocket is a heat expansion fit and so yes it requires a new crankshaft to fix the issue. BMW have issued a number of technical updates about it and will replace any engine under warranty.

Agree though that once an engine gets over 100k miles it is a case of buyer beware, also agree the oil changes these days are mad but long life oils do last a long longer before degrading although in diesels there is little you can do to minimise soot load
 
#14 ·
Being sealed inside the engine, bathed in oil with an automatic tensioner, the cam chain needs no maintenance and cannot be abused in any way that would cause premature failure. It should, effectively, last for ever. For it to fail at any time, yet alone at mileages as low as 30000, it must have an inherent design fault. Any manufacturer that produces a product with an inherent fault should pick up the tab for its rectification.
The reply from BMW is saying that the car is outside of their goodwill parameters at 103000 miles. My car had done that mileage in less than 3 years. Are they suggesting that's a reasonable life for a car costing over £35000?
 
#15 ·
Just to put the record straight, I'm not expecting BMW to replace the engine, but I do expect them to acknowledge there is a serious issue with this engine design, be it the BMW dynamic service system or faulty chains / tensioners, if there is no problem why did BMW change the design after 2008? The main reason they are saying they can't perceive any issues is due to people not using BMW main dealers for repairs for 2 reasons. 1. No confidence in those dealers and 2. Eye watering labour charges (£168 per hour!!!) I have contacted a number of independents who advise they have seen literally "hundreds" of these failures over the whole range that uses the N47 engines. So what I expect is for BMW to hold up their hands and admit that those engines for the 2 year production run are subject to possible failure and at least cover the cost of the parts (around £1200) and the owner to pay the labour charges.

There is recorded examples on the internet where the crankshaft sprocket was not machined properly and destroyed some chains in 17K miles. There are PUMA bulletins to this effect.
Independent mechanical engineers have stated the chains are too light for the job and suffer from metal fatigue and stretching, eventually failing.
There is also an online petition currently running to be presented to the BMW CEO in Germany calling for action.

A search around other forums throws up all sorts of results on this very issue. For a prestige car company to try and ignore issues like this will cost them long term in customer confidence and buyers will look elsewhere for a durable, reliable vehicle that meets their needs.
 
#17 ·
Seems like it all boils down to "make it as cheap as you can " to maximise the profits....and yes you are right it shouldn't be down to the punter to foot the bill when it backfires. BUT. The objective question is ....what it a reasonable mileage to get trouble free out of an engine ??? Certainly not 30-40 k if that's when they fail !! But is 100k acceptable ?? Million dollar question.
 
#18 ·
100000 miles is not a lot for a diesel at all, my car did that in 3 years. Diesels have always been about economy and longevity. This engine had a design or manufacturing fault that was there when it was newly purchased. BMW should recognise that and at least contribute something toward the costs of repair. If they wouldn't play ball I'd be writing to VOSA, trading standards and TVs Watchdog.
 
#20 ·
Same issue on mine

Sorry to hear that mate... Yes this is a common issue on these engines, me and my brother-in-law got the same car 320D 177bhp (57 reg and 08) which both got around 130K miles, both cars have/had a timing chain noise coming from the back of the engine which is basically a warning that the timing chain has worn.
My brother-in-law decided to replace just the chain which cost him approx £750 (labour & parts) which was a engine out job and the problem has gone away.
I will have to do the same in couple of weeks and I hope the chain will not snap till then.
The mechanic also said that the chain is very thin compared with the one from the previous engine.
Maybe the damage is not that bad on yours as the car was doing only 20mph.
What parts need replacing?
 
#22 ·
Think at a small claims court it would all depend on whether failure after 100k was reasonable...which goes back to what I said before.....what is a reasonable life span of an engine ??? Don't forget the judges in these cases will,have no mechanical knowledge and probably never even emptied their own ash trays....they will hear 100000 miles and think "that's a long way" !
 
#23 ·
If we were talking about a crappy French 1 litre engine then think most would agree an engines life span of around 100k is more acceptable but when you buy a BMW which are built in the knowledge that most will do high milages in a relatively short time, failure at 100k is far less acceptable
 
#24 ·
My lads first car is an 800cc 3cyl matiz with 90k and it runs as sweet as a nut and doesn't use a thimble of oil !! So yes a BMW should pi55 100k...but it's all down to what a small claims court judge would deem reasonable ??? And we know how judges live in ga ga land !
 
#26 ·
What a Bummer ( not Beamer ) sorry to here of your problems, but this is just a poshed up F Off note from BMW, unfortunately typical for this day and age when it comes to them honering their advertising hype, If it were me, I would consider a bill board / or advertising in local paper, 103 K is nothing, they could / should have done it as a matter or curtesy and pride in their product, apparently people on here have more pride in their car than BMW, try watchdog (BBC) or similar- sorry to hear about your problem
 
#27 ·
Well at last a local indy BM specialist has sorted it out, I phoned him the day after boxing day and he had 3 waiting with the same failure, When he collected mine had another 4 enquiries for repair of the same fault. How can BMW deny this obvious defect in manufacture? They only need to check the parts going out of the stores to realise there is a ticking time bomb for the men in leather shorts.

Anyway my 20mph chain snap has cost all 16 valves, 2 bent camshafts, broken cam carriers and of course new timing chain, tensioners and sprockets. Whilst engine out thought it was a good idea to change the clutch, mechanic did it for the cost of the parts (£300) would be £900 if transmission was to come out later for clutch. So no car over xmas and the final bill, £3300. Im off to try and collate incidences and get onto watchdog.......
 
#29 ·
On the note of VW/Audi replacing the injectors - This was because VOSA got involved due to safety concerns, when the injectors shorted out, they cut the power to the entire car which made them far more dangerous (no braking servo etc).

I can't see anything obvious but if you can play on the safety aspect of the timing chain going (no idea how your gonna do that) then you may have more luck

Apologies if this has been said already - I scan read the entire post :)
 
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