[Gabriel]

I've started trying this recently at low speeds to see how smoothly I can change down. What I used to do was change gear and just bring the clutch up.

I like the feeling of rev matching because you don't notice the changes but will this damage the engine or wear it out quicker?! I'm driving an E46 330Ci.

 

[[email protected]]

Interested to hear the reponses on this one.

I routinely did it on my 330ci and that lasted 120k miles. :thumbsup

 

[andy51086]

am not sure what you mean by rev matching?

do you mean not using the clutch and guessing the revs to change up or down a gear?

 

[Gabriel]

Well the method I'm using is to push the clutch in, change down a gear and then with the clutch still in, rev the car to the appropriate revs for the lower gear. I'm talking about only doing this when the engine is fully warm etc...

 

[andy51086]

sounds like a good way to burn the clutch

unless you get the revs spot on

am not sure tbh if i would do it

 

[Gabriel]

I routinely did it on my 330ci and that lasted 120k miles. :thumbsup

Mark, did you use a similar method to me or something different? Also did you notice your clutch wearing out more often than it should have?!?!

 

[[email protected]]

Mark, did you use a similar method to me or something different? Also did you notice your clutch wearing out more often than it should have?!?!

Nope, I meant cluthchless changing up the box.

I think you are effectively doing is what the 'heel and toe' process does. In effect more closely matching the revs should prevent wear I would have thought.

 

[Gabriel]

I knew I'd got confused somewhere.

What are the advantages of clutchless gear changes and how do you do it?!

 

[andy51086]

going up is fine i would say going down isnt its easier to match the revs ging up as when you select a higher gear it usually goes in straight away

 

[sam_c]

The same question was asked in Evio last month - someone wrote in asking it if would knacker their gear box / cluth and the response was basically that clutchless gear chnages are slower because you need to ensure that the gear are matched at a speed before they will engage, doing so at high rpm is a) difficult and b) put unnecessarily high loads on synchos, gear teeth and the selector mechanism.

They also point out that if you changing gear is based purely on mechanical harmony, rather than road conditions, then its potentially not verty safe.

Personally, I will sometimes 'blip' the throttle on a downshift to ensure that teh revs match - it does make for a smoother gear change (cars like the Nissan 370 do this for you now). I don't do it all the time, only when pressing on, when it is sometimes harder to downshift, quickly and smoothly.

 

[328mark]

blipping the throttle on down changes is perfectly fine
no chances of hurting the clutch doing this.

 

[sprintman]

Double de clutch when changing down, all good drivers do.

 

[Gabriel]

What is the advantage of double declutching? Forgive me if I'm being thick but is there any need in a modern car?

 

[ZXraziel]

Well the method I'm using is to push the clutch in, change down a gear and then with the clutch still in, rev the car to the appropriate revs for the lower gear. I'm talking about only doing this when the engine is fully warm etc...

No damage mate dont be woried about it just enjoy the car.

 

[328mark]

What is the advantage of double declutching? Forgive me if I'm being thick but is there any need in a modern car?

modern synchromesh says no

 

[J.Salmon]

sounds like a good way to burn the clutch

unless you get the revs spot on

am not sure tbh if i would do it

i do this all the time, if anything i think it preserves the clutch...
if you press the clutch down, revs drop to idle, then you bring it up n the revs get dragged back up to say 3,000 depending on gear/speed
but if you blip the loud pedal in between, even if you're 200 revs out its still not as bad
thats how i think of it anyway

 

[DanBMW]

Nope, I meant cluthchless changing up the box.

I think you are effectively doing is what the 'heel and toe' process does. In effect more closely matching the revs should prevent wear I would have thought.

That's what Ive heard I do it regularly I love doing it, if your matching the engine to the correct revs there should be less strain on the clutch when down changing, this is noticeable because the car doesnt jerk. Im not Mechanic but that what ive heard and it makes sence.

 

[shamM3]

Its makes for a smoother ride and saves the clutch as your matching the speeds, although I think it should be a quick blip on the throttle and not for too long or it'll just be like your over revving the car for no reason.

I always do it when on track to keep the revs/power up :thumbsup

 

[robrex]

its all about the timing too, if you blip just as your letting the clutch up then it will be completely smooth. ive learnt to toe heal and it makes for some fun driving. it will save your clutch as you flywheel and clutch are rotating at the same speed just before they engage when you rev match so its less wear. also great fun when approaching a corner and you toe heal down a gear or two and power round the corner.

 

[B11LAG]

Rev Matching is about sound, you need to know what to listen for and when. Then it just drops into gear each and every time, no stereo on, nothing else on your mind but driving. This is a process you learn, as in you won't get it first time and your gearbox won't thank you for it!

Your heal, toe, rev matching tecnique should teach you how to make a "seemless change" as much as is possible in the fully manual car. Ie passengers should not be able to tell you have changed down, apart from noise.

Master that and learn the revs, then start to introduce the non-use of the clutch pedal, don't panic, fail, put the clutch in, you will eventually get it right.