[mart64]

Dear Forum'ers.
Further to my last post regarding the above issue I'm still having what seems to be a(nother) fuel related issue, any help as always gratefully recieved!
I've changed:
Diesel Tank Lifter Pump
Crank Sensor
Main Diesel Injection Pump
Replaced 2m Vacuum Hosing
Blocked off EGR Valve
My initial idle-ing and cut our problems have now been resolved (thankfully!) but now the car is 'holding back' when I put my foot down, usually it will eventually pick up and go, but not always. It just feels to me like it's not getting enough fuel under load? This is always noticable when going up hill or accelerating on a motorway slip road! But it does occur randomly under any conditions. When this happens the mpg needle wavers.
I was advised that the second hand Injection Pump may have been running on Veg Oil and could have 'sticking parts' inside which is the cause (?) so I'm currently running on a high dosage of Forte to see if I can clean it out. Maybe it's this, but could it be anything else? It seems once I fix one problem it highlights another.
My previous post is here:
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f17/1996-e36-325tds-engine-idle-cut-out-t71503/
Many thanks indeed in advance...any/all suggestions welcome!!

 

[doug1234]

Check for water in the main ecu compartment ,it is a 3 series problem that is quite common and it can affect the tds in this way.

Also look for the injection warning light coming on,it will do this and go straight out again circa 1500 rpm if it is anything to do with the inj pump fuel pressure regulator solenoid.

I say this because mine went bad so I broke a perfectly good car up as I had enough of its treachery by that stage.,Anyway mine had the mpg guage doing odd random things at that time.

Regulator is replaceable without to much work and costs around £140 new or use a second hand one.

Check this forum by threads/post by Ellnic,if none then I have the wrong forum and you need bmw5.co.uk

Veg oil wont have stuck it up and the inj pump can draw enough fuel for itself once engine is running .

Google the water in ecu compartment so you have more idea of what to look for.Water will and can cause random faults such as in tank lift pump running when ignition key removed from car etc,it can be dried out on an household radiator and be able to carry on working so either of the faults I have posted about are easy fixes.

 

[mart64]

Many thanks once again Dog1234! No erroneous warning lights coming up on dash. Fuel Injection Control light flashes up and then goes out as normal, followed by glow plug light and car starts normally! I'll google "water in ECU" and look into it. Having never taken the ECU out before, is there anything important I need to know concerning it's removal? It's located in the bulkhead behind the fuse box....correct? Once again...very many thanks!

 

[mart64]

Thanks once again Doug1234...is the "Regulator" you mentioned to the same as Ellnic's "Solenoid" he refers to here?:
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f17/1995-e36-325tds-fuel-pressure-regulator-m51-engine-t37751/
Thanks again!

 

[doug1234]

Yes the same.

 

[mart64]

Thanks Doug...very,very much appreciated. I'll get onto this and hopefully I'm near the end!!

 

[mart64]

Quick update: Had the ECU out this week and on the radiator, then back in the car.....no change! It was quite dry in the compartment with no signs of water damage. I've removed the injector fuel pressure regulator solenoid from my old pump and will fit it in this coming week. Anything I need to know regarding it's fitting? Manifold off I guess and go in from the top of the engine? Once this is changed and if it still remains the same I'll be totally stumped! Could it be a blocked boost sensor pipe? Should I inspect/change anything else whilst the manifold is off? Many thanks.

 

[doug1234]

Manifold off is an option or go from underneath if the car can be raised high enough,on the 5 series there is plenty of access but on the 3 series not much.

Oh and if you remove injector pipes ,should not really need to but if you do then number them up and draw the position on the pump where they fit,ie number one pipe leaves the pump at the one oclock position and then following that is etc etc.

They are easy to mix up and will fit in a variety of positions,I have done it myself and I eventually took photos the second time around to help reassembly,photos are in the link below.
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=71859

 

[mart64]

Brilliant Doug, duly noted and thanks again! One last thing...should I change anything else whilst in this area. I was particularly thinking along the lines of a blocked pipe or something? Could it be the boost sensor pipe (coated with 15 years of EGR gunk etc), or another fuel pipe problem in that area of the engine? Really clutching at straws now!!
Your help and knowledge has been invaluable and thanks for your time on this.

 

[mart64]

Brilliant Doug, duly noted and thanks again! One last thing...should I change anything else whilst in this area. I was particularly thinking along the lines of a blocked pipe or something? Could it be the boost sensor pipe (coated with 15 years of EGR gunk etc), or another fuel pipe problem in that area of the engine? Really clutching at straws now!!
Your help and knowledge has been invaluable and thanks for your time on this.

 

[Defiance]

Is your egr base that fits onto the inlet manifold round or the latter square type ??

Reason i ask is this ...

Mine is a january 1996 325tds touring, it has the square ended egr onto the inlet manifold, the actual egr blanking pipe area differs from what i see/searched as the 'normal' tds egr

I did the egr blanking with a penny and blocked the tube that goes to the egr

The result was (ohh i cleaned the egr out as as always any cars i have with egr's are totally gummed up) it would drive fine n dandy with decent go up the gears pulling great from 2k upwards right upto 5th gear

But ......... say i was cruising in 5th and had to overtake up a slight slope or even on the flat then i would nudge the pedal down but nothing would happen, thought about losing boost etc, so of course i tried dropping to 4th then 3rd then absolutely caning the poor engine in 2nd, all these gears changes did zip on the speed !!!

I thought about all the turbo associated problems i could think of, but i decided a quick simple test would more than likely help me find the problem

What i found out from dubious searches was my egr type was the latter fitted type, designed differently or the sensor where the pipe (assume boost valve/sensor) was different, so in my case the egr delete stopped my boost from kicking in after cruising for a time, but as i say from 1st to 5th she would go real well

For me i would clean the egr to within a thou of an inch of its life, try a new piece of tubing (luckily i had some sili offcuts from a previous engine bay blinging hehe) and this wouldn't cost a fortune and is easy to do ............... also, i have skimmed through the replies, but have you checked all the rubber cloth covered diesel pipes under the engine cover that run from each injector, on my old vw passat these were all loose and cracking when closely inspected after removal, but at a quick glance seemed fine (maybe your idling/eratic problem ?)

Been all around derbyshire today enjoying the scenery and loving my 14yr old touring all after having removed a 1p hehe and using a short length of sili tubing (hope it may be something simple and cheap for you too)

Tony

 

[mart64]

Many thanks Tony. I did wonder about the EGR causing (or adding) to the problem so last week I removed the 2p from the EGR and the car still behaved in the same way, no difference! Does this still correlate to what you are suggesting? In this case could it still be at fault?
Are you suggesting cleaning the EGR and then blocking off again but using a different method than the 2p trick? I wasn't sure what you meant by "try a new piece of tubing"! Should I replace something?
I've inspected and replaced all the diesel leak off lines so they should all be ok. It's a nice car as you rightly describe, and it's inspiring to hear that someone's is behaving itself
My car is Sept '96 and I'll definitely check the EGR housing to see if it's the same as yours.
Many thanks and hope to hear back! Best wishes.

 

[Defiance]

Hiya,
Unfortunately removing your 2p and the car behaving the same seems to rule out the egr contributing to your woes

On the egr setup on my engine ..... stainless pipe from block area up to the egr, this is ended with a flange bracket (most egr delete pics i see, towards the end of stainless pipe there is a large round flattish bulge in it) (will try and find pics to link)

So on mine the actual pipe to the egr is merely lipped/flanged at the end for a cap to tighten it onto the egr

The pipe/tube i mean is the rubber one from the egr workings to the sensor, without checking ... i assume this tubing operates the inner egr valve (lol, well it has to) dunno the name of the sensor/valve but my tubing had seen better days so i used some spare silicone i had left from another car engine bay upgrade

What i'd suggest after quickly scanning through posts is (with you having tried so many things so far)

Check all tubing in the engine bay

If they are all oem rubber, which is about 99.9% certain, then try to pull off with one hand with your thumb and one or two fingers, if the tubing just comes off without any kind of resistance then cut 5mm or so off the end and refit (if excess allows only remove some !!! )

(a good tubing seal is going to take a slight effort to remove and might look like the rubber tubing is stretching a bit, if so that was a good seal and just remove a few mm if you can to replicate this seal again)

Also if either the tubing or the fixing area is oily/greasy just clean so the rubber tubing has a nice clean surface to grip onto, no good having a nice fresh end of tubing slip sliding onto a lubed tube

With all the tubing checked (halfrauds/local factor should sell enough HP cloth covered tubing to replace all or any requiring it)

Then remove the egr, scrape any overall crud out, then use lint free cloths etc to get all you can off, then use some form of solvent (turps works great for egr cleaning ;-) )

Gonna look for egr pics to show you the difference

Tony

ps: i mean check/clean, then try egr as stock (unblocked) to totally rule the egr delete out of the equasion))

pps: Just look at the pic i added (many thanks to the original pic snapper)

If your pipework (stainless) looks anything like this then it's good to delete/blank-off etc

If your pipework looks like a plain length of bended stainless with nothing whatsoever along its length with only a lip to the egr, then do not egr delete this as you will end up with stall after initial gear changes (easiest way i can describe, no go-go when pedal to the metal)

 

[Defiance]

Re-read your initial post again

I am guessing your egr stainless pipe is gonna look mine which is the pic in this post

If it is then remove the egr blocking penny and get to work de-gunking the egr, but do check all engine bay rubber tubing etc

If the whole length of the stainless looks like below then do not block the egr off

From the pics you can obviously see a hell of a difference, straight through piping compared to a pipe of varying parts welded/silver-soldered

Tony

ps: If you do take the egr off, and it's really heavily crudded up, i would go allout and remove the inlet and give that a damned good thrashing err i mean cleaning

Re-read your very first postings on your problem/s

Seems you've changed/tested about all the major and minor items in your engine bay

My way out thinking after seeing the lengths you've gone to to sort the problem out is this ..........

Scenario ......... EGR totally gummed up, with this as i've always found is any inlet manifold gets totally crudded up too, as the manifold tends to heat up more than the further away areas eg: egr/air intake etc the crud really does bake on inside the manifold area, maybe also the rubber tubing to the (pressure doodahh)

In theory, with a really crudded egr/egr rubber pressure tubing/crudded inlet manifold, the idle problem could occur as these restrictions are just that, causing erratic idling and stalling at idle, whereas, giving her some, err i mean gently thraping the beastly engine she has enough suction to overcome the restrictive flow thus seeming to be fine when on power

Never had problems with diesels, only had diesels for three years, but anything thrown your way without much outlay seems to be the best at this time seeing as you must of spent a small fortune thus far

In all my years working on my cars and others engines/cars i've honestly never had a idle problem solely caused by a badly crudded egr/inlet manifold though these have contributed to a slightly erratic idling 100-200rpm blips is easiest way to describe, but as the saying goes, there's always a first time !! (and my crudded inlet is getting cleaned sooner rather than later)

If you can, post back with the type of pipework you have to the egr

TTFN

 

[Defiance]

Bumpy bump

I suppose you did the fuel filter itself ? also checked for kinking/squashing of the main fuel line/s ??

Again, never had even a crudded up fuel filter give anything other than lower topend power

Food for thought i guess

Tony

 

[mart64]

Tony...this is great! Much thanks for all you info and there is a lot here for me to get to work on. I'm working away this week but will get onto it next weekend and get a post up on here with an update.
I'm pretty sure my EGR housing is not like your top picture. The joint where the 2p is "slipped" in is held to EGR housing by a thick metal elliptical bracket with two long'ish bolts securing it to the housing. The stainless steel pipe is one peice (not made of welded parts as in pic 1) and quite difficult to prise back to slip the 2p in!
In which case you recommend to not block it off? But first I need to get cleaning!!
All the best Tony and thanks once again...much appreciated.

 

[Defiance]

Hiya,

Yeah it seems you have the exact same egr pipework then, my blocking of this egr layout made me useless at overtaking after i had been cruising along in top gear, got so worrying going up a slight climb trying to overtake a small fiat i dropped from 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd still doing the same speed !!!!!! as i say, removed the coin, redid the pressure tubing and cruised around the next county just enjoying the scenery and twisty roads

With that established, asap you can get egr off, clean the begger, and remove the 2p etc and run it as all oem spec, do check the small pressure tube though

With a socket/allen key set and a 10mm and 11mm spanner comes in very handy (10mm to get the easier accessed egr fixing bolts, the 11mm once the harder to get ones are cracked open a bit i found the 11mm undoes them faster as you have to angle the spanner (you should see what i mean)) should take 5mins to remove and then cleaning time and reassembly time on top

Very easy job, on a few cars i have stored i swear i could remove/clean/refit blindfolded lmao (mk2 astras, luv em) but these egr's without removing a lot just need a bit of patience

I am finding things out daily concerning these engines, hopefully with more input you'll have a car driving as it should so you can start enjoying it

TT

Tony

 

[mart64]

Great, thanks again Tony. I'll recommission the EGR next weekend. To include removal and thorough cleaning. I'll also replace the rubber pressure tube(s) too. Haven't got underneath there to have a look but I'm sure i'll find the rubber pipe you mentioned....from EGR to Sensor I presume...but I'll find it! Much appreciated and thanks again.

 

[mart64]

Update. Finally got out today and removed and cleaned the EGR, replaced the vacumm hose connecting pipe and removed 2p (so it's unblocked), but now I seem to be going backwards as I have now lost the intermittent power surge I had before....but there's now no acceleration/power being delivered at all....wouldn't like to go up hills with this!! I put my foot down and it's just not delivering any power. Am I getting somewhere? Not sure! EGR all correct but absolutely no power whatsoever....at least I was getting some before, albeit intermittent. MPG gauge drops to 30mpg and stays there even if my foot is to the floor.
Apart from that the engine starts, run's and sounds fine. I think it's the Solenoid off the fuel injection pump this weekend, and then I'm totally out of ideas. Suggestions as always much appreciated.

 

[Dan2014]

Hiya , did this ever get sorted?