[nebam]

Hi, im new to the bmw forum, just bought a bmw 5 series petrol manual that has a problem!, when you put the key in the ignition and turn it nothing happens but if you give it a shake the ignition lights come on but wont turn engine over!


So.........

1/ i know i need a new barrel!

2/ are the keys coded to the barrel or can i just get a used one and change it!

3/ do they have an immobiliser via the key and barrel?

4/ have a couple of bare wires at ignition! is there anywhere on here i can get a look at diagram?

thanks in advance for any advice

 

[steviec_lj]

4/ have a couple of bare wires at ignition! is there anywhere on here i can get a look at diagram?

thanks in advance for any advice

This is quite probably your problem. Do you know the colours of the bare wires?

 

[nebam]

Hi Stevie, the wires are 2 green thin wires which go to a square shape box 3" long x 1.5" roughly with other wires coming out (could be some kind of alarm box as has licence exempt on it !) and the other 2 are coming from what looks like the steering wheel and are brown and blue (might be for air bag etc)

 

[steviec_lj]

I don't seem to be able to find the wiring diagram for the 5 series unfortunately.

There are a couple of manuals online here; http://bmw.ctcms.net/bmw/BMW/E-Books/ which may be of some use?

Alternatively you could try http://www.realoem.com/

 

[gildersol]

The 2 green wires are supposed to connect to the antenna ring on the ignition switch as they are for the key recognition signal to the immobiliser

 

[nebam]

hi Gildersol, thats great, have now connected the wires to ignition ring but made no difference! still wont turn over, i have also noticed that the red immobilizer light doesnt work either (should be flashinh i think!?). could there be any fuses for this or relays that would stop it turning over!?

Does the imobilizer cut power to starter or fuel or even coils?

many thanks

 

[nebam]

Hi, have been reading some other posts about immobilizer problems, and was wondering could i just somehow bypass the immobilizer? if so can anyone pm me with what to do! much appreciated thanks

 

[Ronnie]

No you can't switch of the immobiliser otherwise the car would be really easy to steal, and why are the wires hanging out in the first place?

Sounds like the car has already had a attempt at being stolen

 

[nebam]

hi Ronnie, i bought the BMW as a non starter due to there being a problem with the ignition barrel, when turned it wont turn the starter over! at some point previously somebody has fitted a push button starter to the dash and wired it to the rear of the barrel splicing into the starter wire, "so they would have put the key in the ignition turned it untill the dash lights are on then pressed the push button which turned it overto start!"

But when i got the car the ignition ring was just lying inside the column and the 2 wires for the signal were just lying bare, i have recconected everything as it should be but still dont get power to turn the engine over, so have stripped starter out cleaned lubricated refitted still nothing, if i jump solenoid will turn over but not start!, so i was wondering what does the immobiliser do i.e. does it cut fuel, starter or coil? (it maybe best if anyone is willing to tell me they pm me!)

My plan was i have bought a column of ebay complete with ring, barrel and key that i was going to replace the faulty barrel with, then i would put key in old barrel with ignition ring attached and stick behind the dash so the immobiliser would work! but really needed to find out why it wont turn over !? i am going to local breakers tomorrow to see if they have any starter relays as was thinking this might be the fault for not turning over or maybe the ignition control unit? i have checked at the relay fuse and when ignition on there is 12 volts straight across the middle 3 connectors so this seems to be gettin power upto it!

So hopefully somebody can help me out!

I have been reading other problems etc on here and see there seems to be some who dont or wont share info on this subject and i do understand thier concerns to a certain extent but surley common sense can prevaile! i am a member of several different forums and never come across this before! where do you draw the line? i see some with car details showing i.e make, model, registration number, colour, pictures etc etc !! surley to a thief very valuable information for a ringer!

But i havent joined to cause trouble over opinions etc just looking for a bit of genuine help and advise :thumbsup

 

[Ronnie]

Have a GOOD read here, may take several reads to understand :eek http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/understandthe EWS BMW.pdf

 

[nebam]

thanks Ronnie understand the system now! (i think lol)

All i need now is to find where the DME Control Module is located?

i think i shall give the system 1 last go and get a new key from BMW in case the coil sensor is away in that! after that my only option is to change all the immobiliser components! unless there is a way to bypass the EWS and DME?

 

[Ronnie]

It sounds as if the ignition switch is toast, especially if someone added a push button start. Can you post up or PM me the last 7 digits of your VIN number?

 

[Ronnie]

I have been reading other problems etc on here and see there seems to be some who dont or wont share info on this subject and i do understand thier concerns to a certain extent but surley common sense can prevaile! i am a member of several different forums and never come across this before! where do you draw the line? i see some with car details showing i.e make, model, registration number, colour, pictures etc etc !! surley to a thief very valuable information for a ringer!

But i havent joined to cause trouble over opinions etc just looking for a bit of genuine help and advise :thumbsup

With regards to this it's because it would actually be aiding car theft if we did post up how to bypass the EWS, I don't know anyhow. We as a forum could get in trouble if we did post up how to steal a BMW by bypassing the EWS. You wouldn't want someone nicking your e34 because of us would you?


Now on to your car problem........................................


Do you have a Airbag?

 

[nebam]

yes fully understand that point, as for nicking the e34 there welcome lol

anyways yes has an airbag- and airbag light is on as well! but there are 2 coloured wires bare coming out the steering ring, which i presumed were the reason airbag light is on!

thanks for the help in advance really is appreciated

 

[Ronnie]

Have a look here http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=HG12&mospid=47391&btnr=32_0905&hg=32&fg=30. I "think" this is the part you need as they show 2 part numbers, but the dealer will be able to confirm, #3, 61328360865 ignition switch

As well as #6, 61358364709 ring antenna.

Can you post some pics up of the wires hanging out so I have better idea http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f71/how-to-post-pictures-and-add-signatures-or-t2682/

 

[nebam]

hi, its not the ignition cable #3, that is okay its the actual barrel which doesnt work correctly! and i have the ring antenna ! for some reason wont work! will post pics later of the other 2 wires from steering wheel!

 

[gildersol]

It's not just a cable. The part at the end that fits to the lock assembly is the actual switch.
If the switch is faulty and the contacts inside are not making properly (you did say that if you wiggle it you get power to the dash etc) then that could be why there is no power to the starter. It is possible that the pickup is recognising your key, but the switch is not allowing power through.
Given the fact that someone has already tampered with the switch/antenna ring, it's hard to tell what they've been up to.

 

[nebam]

Hi Gildersol, yes i know what you mean but its the key side if you wiggle then the lights come on! i have unscrewed the assembly from the back and all is well the lights come on if i turn with screw driver and turns to start mode but doesnt turn it over! the fault (loose connection that is) must be in the acctual barrel mech!

i wish i knew what the previuos owner did but he is just saying he never touched it the aa looked at it! but thats rubbish!

Is there any other way of telling if the antenna ring is picking the key up?

 

[nebam]

Ronnie, here's the pic of the other 2 wires from the steering wheel ring! 4 come out all together 2 of them go into the grey clip shown! but no where else on it for the 2 bare wires!

 

[gildersol]

Not sure what electrical checks you have done, but you could try these if you are comfortable with electrics:

1. At the ignition switch the red wire should have +12v at it.

2. If it has then hold the key in the start position and the black/yellow wire should now have +12v on it. If not you can short between the red wire and the black yellow wire momentarily with a piece of wire ( same size of wire as the ones you're shorting). If this turns the starter then you need a new switch.

3. If above is ok, while holding the key in start position, the black/yellow wire on pin 6 of the immobiliser unit should have +12v at it.

4. If these voltages are all present, check whether pin 2 (also black/yellow wire) on immobiliser has +12v on it. If it has , then the immobiliser is healthy and you should have power at the starter motor. If not, you can short across the two black/yellow wires momentarily with a piece of wire ( same size of wire as the ones you're shorting), and if that runs the starter then the immobiliser is not in a healthy state (immobilised).


Not sure about the relays, I've only been in about the DME on a 3 series and you wouldn't want relays in beside it on an early 3 series as the compartment is prone to flooding.