BMW and INPA success E39/E46 onwards - Page 6

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    #51
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    Partial quote from Post #1

    Quote Originally Posted by joylove View Post
    Think about it from the view of the module makers. E34/E36 were designed in the late 80's when RS232 was cutting edge. Tx and Rx data was kept separate and clocked slowly. As the 90's rolled on they could Tx and Rx on the same wire starting with the DME and EGS, and by the late 90's all modules had been redesigned to be K line only for the E39/E46.

    They started with US E36 in 1996 for two modules DME and EGS adding TxD2 to the 20 pin and 16 pin connector.

    EU Z3 and E36 compact added the OBD2 error code support after 1999ish.

    The generic ODB2 system runs alongside the DS2 system on the same K line pins in either connector, and continues to do so to until at least 2008.

    All modules continue to support DS2 messaging after OBD2 was forced upon them and still do today.

    The E34/E36 needed a two wire serial link but at the 1996 E36 facelift some modules (DME, HVAC and others) got the DS2 port upgraded to a 1 wire K line that works with a VAGCOM lead.

    From E46/E39 the RxD L line was redundant and all modules went to a single K line interface for DS2 and OBD2. TxD was repurposed to bidirectional duties. There are two K lines (TxD and TxD2). DME and EGS on one, everything else on the other.

    Your 1994-2000 E36 from any country will need an ADS adaptor to access the KOMBI and ABS plus others. This device supports the old school RxD and TxD link fitted to those cars for those modules.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hoping this Thread will respond to a few questions.
    My Vehicle is a (US) BMW E39 528I Sedan. My Vin# WBADM6342XGU0xxxx 1st sold late 1999 or early 2000.

    My OBDII (under dash) PORT uses Pins 4,5, 7 & 16. I have a California & US Federal government EPA
    sticker attached in the Engine compartment stating the Vehicle is ODB11 (actual spelling vs. ODB2) Compliant.
    Pin 15 (L-line) is not populated at either, the 16 pin (under-dash) or 20 Pin Round (under-bonnet) locations.

    The last sentence from what I pasted above says “Your 1994-2000 E36 from any country will need an ADS adaptor to access the KOMBI and ABS plus others. This device supports the old school RxD and TxD link fitted to those cars for those modules”.

    Perhaps, some clarification. I have purchased (via Ebay) a Blue colored set of cables which leads the purchaser to believe certain capabilities might be achieved with their product(s). This purchase also included INPA version 4. 4. 7 and Ediabas 6.4.3-full version along with a slew of additional programs, that don’t need to be discussed as of yet.

    Some issue concerning the hardware may be an issue. What I’ve found might be better understood with a picture or two.
    I’ll download the Hardware Pictures and attach two wiring diagrams

    ebay_BMW_serial_USB.jpg
    My ebay items

    Lo rez vag-com pc board.jpg
    Pc Board with FTDI-232RL chip

    LO rez vag-com PINS 7 & 8.jpg
    bottom view...with solder pins 7 & 8

    schematic reference only.jpg
    Reference schematic...

    my stuff.jpg
    My wiring Laptop with Serial to USB adapter and
    16Pin to OBD 20 pin Round PORT Edit = dec 8, 2012


    Now to get a little bit more specific about the software side of this effort. The first INPA installation never ended with a successful “TWO BLACK DOTS” and offered a couple of error messages when attempting to Link the E39 (F5 function key). The most common error message was a Dialog Box stating “Error compiling script file”. An error was also recorded in the file “inpa.err” file found in the INPA\Bin folder. These error files are not permanent…and have self-deleted or perhaps were replaced with empty containers (place holder with the same file name).

    I’m past this problem…at least for the short term. I’ve had some help from a forum member “rebel_ranter” over at Driver.net Forums. I’ve now installed an updated version 5.02 of INPA and it appears to work. However, I’m thinking that the INPA Version 5.02 is too new for my 1999 E39. I make this claim based on what appears to be lack of reference files and the fact that the E39 is not listed on the 1st INPA window when executed. This is currently where I’m stuck at. I’ve since learned just a little about the various INI type files. They can be edited and I’m guessing there maybe some guidelines.

    I’m hoping to learn more about this procedure. A possible need to fall back to an earlier version also becomes a question…at least to me. And Now a new question as well...DO I NEED AN ADS ADAPTER?

    Looking forward to some feedback and thanks in advance,


    ron_of_orange 3:58pm,PDT
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    Last edited by ron_of_orange; 09-12-2012 at 03:15. Reason: updated two attachments
     
     

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  3.  
    #52
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    joylove's Car Details
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    OK so first to get the E39 stuff you press Shift F9 (Old models) I think. BMW never removed old models from INPA. Some online downloads are trimmed in size by the uploader, but I assume with 5.02 you should be OK if your download was around the 300MB mark.

    Second ignore E36 stuff since you have an E39.

    Third you need to check again the under dash connector. I would expect as a bare minimum that TXD2 pin 16.7 would be there, because that the specification pin for OBDII data from DME and EGS (auto gearbox).

    Finally I assume pin 16.8 isn't there since you have the round connector, hence you need the passive 16 to 20 pin adaptor with TXD and TXD2 shorted together to access all modules. If you have pin 16.8 then you can use the under dash connector with 16.7 and 16.8 shorted for the same effect.
     
     

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    ron_of_orange (08-12-2012)

  5.  
    #53
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    Sorry, didn't get back sooner...

    The Shift F9 Key did have My E39...(maybe it was my glasses...lol (my bad) My files using Windows porperties offers 2,146 files in 26 folders
    for a total of 107MB on the disk. E36 stuff? where?...Inpa? Old Models? No problem here!...

    However I may have an EDIABAS-Error = ApiCheckJobStatus#95 SYS-005 Object File Not Found, Api job error or no such result ! Continue Script Processing?. This was observed with no connection to the adapter cables or to the vehicle...although I thought I saw a similar error a couple of days ago when connected...I and ignored it at that time. I'll have to check this on the Vehicle (this might be just another system of a bigger problem.

    I'll add a picture for the ODBII pin-out ODB2 _'99BMW E39.jpg, also for the bonnet portDIAG PORT _BONNET '99 E39.jpg

    You may see the ODBII connector pin-out...(you should see 4,5, 7 & 16)


    My Ebay Vag-Com connector(Usb/Comm) does have Pin 7 & 8 shorted. The other pins in this Vag-com connector are not easily confirmed due to the construction of the unit and difficultly trying to trace out the PC board itself.

    One more question for today...You mentioned ADS and now you've mentioned a Passive 16 to 20 pin adapter. Can you offer more on this? Not too sure if we need either one....or both?

    Thk's

    ron_of_orange 12:26pm PDT
     
     

  6.  
    #54
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    OK so take baby steps. Try and talk to the DME (engine management), it should be accessible with your VAG-COM only. Remember to turn on the ignition. You may have several DME options to try one-by-one until you find one that connects and reads from the DME.

    Get on order the $3 16 pin to 20 pin adaptor from the first post, you will need it later and it takes a while to ship.

    You don't need an ADS adaptor, they are for E34, E28, E36.

    Your error message is a genuine error, it's telling you that it can't talk to the module, and it's aborting the script.

    If you can't talk to the DME with Vag-com, inspect ediabas.ini for interface = STD:OBD and inspect OBD.ini (both copies as discussed in the first post) and check your com port settings. It is handy to place a shortcut to these three files on the desktop because you will access them more than you think.
     
     

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    ron_of_orange (08-12-2012)

  8.  
    #55
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    Partial quote from Post 54

    Quote Originally Posted by joylove View Post
    If you can't talk to the DME with Vag-com, inspect ediabas.ini for interface = STD:OBD and inspect OBD.ini (both copies as discussed in the first post) and check your com port settings.
    interface = STD:OBD = OK...ODB.ini =OK, Com Port set to Com 1= OK, OBD.ini = Hardware=USB ;EDIT You can also try OBD I swapped over from USB to OBD

    Quote Originally Posted by joylove View Post
    Get on order the $3 16 pin to 20 pin adaptor from the first post
    I have this (Ebay item),as seen in my post # 51

    First pass...I failed...On second Pass I passed..."WE HAVE LIFT_OFF"...I was missing the ODB.ini file in Window directory. I guess I lost it in between the two INPA installs. Anyway I've now got communication at the ODB connector under the bonnet.

    I still get error IFH-0009, but only on a some selected menu items
    IFH-0009 on Engine , transmission, chassis ABS
    followed by EDIABAS-Error = ApiCheckJobStatus#95 SYS-005 Object File Not Found, Api job error or no such result ! Continue Script Processing?

    I'm so happy right now...I don't know what to ask. I guess a little hand holding goes a long way...Thanks, Mucho Grasias, etc: thumbsup

    ron_of_orange 7:11pm, PDT
    Last edited by ron_of_orange; 06-12-2012 at 04:13. Reason: typo's
     
     

  9.  
    #56
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    Sorry I've only been dipping in, I didn't see your pictures because they didn't load over cellular.

    If your DME is accessible that's step one.
    If say IHKA, PDC or KOMBI is accessible that's step two and all your PC/adaptor setup is complete.
    If you have errors after that you may be attempting to use scripts that are damaged somehow, accessing the wrong module type (EG MS42.0 when you want MS40 script), or accessing a high update-rate screen such as the live engine stats which cause lost data.
     
     

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    ron_of_orange (08-12-2012)

  11.  
    #57
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    I hope the pictures help...they were meant to alleviate as much PAIN as possible ..lol

    Quote Originally Posted by joylove View Post
    If your DME is accessible that's step one.
    If say IHKA, PDC or KOMBI is accessible that's step two and all your PC/adaptor setup is complete.
    If you have errors after that you may be attempting to use scripts that are damaged somehow, accessing the wrong module type (EG MS42.0 when you want MS40 script), or accessing a high update-rate screen such as the live engine stats which cause lost data.
    I'm still stuck at STEP one...DME. This failure was found from either port (dash & bonnet). The message received this AM stated something similar to
    requesting MS411D51, MS411D52 (Not Found), Found MS411D50
    Also Error #95 (Object file not found)

    From BMW INPA E36 OBD OBD2 and ADS interfaces explained = Your #1 post
    Your E36 has a 20 pin socket under the bonnet. It is enabled with OBD1 for all models globally. If you have a US 96+ car, post 09/99 EU Z3 or compact you additionally have a mixed OBD1/OBD2 interface on pin 17 in the 20 pin socket. With the 20 pin cap in place, the 16 pin OBD2 socket under the dash is connected and ready to use. You will not use OBD2 16 pin port for INPA, 20 pin has more modules.

    First the software.

    Please disconnect in your mind the adaptor and the software. It is the software that issues commands in any langauge it feels like, and the adaptor, OBD2 sticker or otherwise, simply converts from PC compatible signals to car compatible signals.

    INPA speaks a language called D2 (aka DS2) to your E36, for all models; globally. It is more advanced in the number of commands it supports than OBD2.
    FYI: My ODB1 port has Pin 17 and I see it jumpered to Pin 19. This is brought (fed) to the Vag-Com Serial/comm adapter on Pin 7.

    From your Post #1 BMW and INPA success E39/E46 onwards
    Quote Originally Posted by joylove View Post
    The 20 Pin
    1 Engine rotation speed
    2 OBD2 Diagnostic
    7 Oil service and inspection reset
    14 12V
    15 L Line
    16 IGN 12V
    17 K line (2) (D_TXD2)
    18 Programming line (PGSP) (not fitted)
    19 GND
    20 K line (1) (D_TXD1)
    Here, I think there might be a slight difference in what is found in your effort versus what I found on my E39.
    I have the following pins occupied 1,2,4,7,12,14,16,17,19 & 20.
    Actual wiring is brought out from the Ebay Plug from Pins 14, 15,17 & 19 With a Jumper built in between Pin 17 & 20. (EDITED Pin numbers)
    Thats 4 wires brought out to the 16 Pin Female connector for attachment to a Vag-com style adapter. I have this a Vag-com style adapter as stated in my 1st Post.

    I should perhaps note that the Pin 15 at the ODB1 (bonnet) doesn't provide a complete path with this setup to the PC (laptop). NO L-LINE

    Hopefully this report offers some helpful tidbits,

    Tnk's again,
    ron_of_orange 12:24pmPDT
    Last edited by ron_of_orange; 09-12-2012 at 01:40. Reason: Pin number revised (18, now 19) & 17 jumper to 20
     
     

  12.  
    #58
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    You are so close you should be able to taste it. Your problem and solution are given to you by the error message.
    . The message received this AM stated something similar to
    requesting MS411D51, MS411D52 (Not Found), Found MS411D50
    So your SW is working, your hardware is working, it's trying to us an MS41.1 D52 script, the module is telling you it is an MS41.1 D50, so try the other DME scripts!
     
     

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    #59
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    This is a Thank You to Joylove.
    Another thank you to Rebel_ranter at INPA install error(s) - Page 3 - BMW-Driver.net Forums

    Here's some helpful advise for anybody who made it through these post...from Rebel_ranter
    Black Dots?
    As for now having the black dots? They are only counted as working properly if:

    - Battery dot turns black when you first plug it in to the OBD socket in the car
    - Ignition dot only turns black when you turn the key in ignition to position 2 (the dot should change between black/white when you turn on/off the ignition).

    If the dots are black when you are not connected to the car then it is further evidence that your software install is corrupt. ie The dots signify battery & ignition detection so if they turn black without being connected to the car then where are they detecting the battery & ignition?

    VAG COM Cable
    This is my last word on this cable, there is no onus on me to provide evidence that your cable is a VAG COM cable. You've got to figure that out for yourself. I'm telling you that from my experience, any blue cable being marketed for BMW use started out life as a VAG COM cable.

    How to tell if it is a VAG COM Cable?
    An unmodified VAG COM cable will work with INPA software but the feature of battery & ignition detection will not work properly. So this might be another clue in your investigation as to whether yours is a VAG COM cable.

    Making a VAG COM cable work with INPA means you either have to:
    - modify the EDIABAS.ini file to trick the software in to thinking the car's battery & ignition have been detected. This is not proper battery/ignition detection.
    - modify the circuit as previously linked to to allow proper battery/ignition detection. This is needed for DIS if you intend to use auto vehicle detection.
    I don't care if you have a VAG COM cable or not but if you do then you need to be aware of the limitations above.


    And another thank you to All the BMW forums for being there.
    And yes, to the Ebay sellers for being available...even with their poorly described offerings and lack of communication skills.

    I'll be back most likely with some further questions.

    This leaves me here with just one concern..."Script files"... The who, what, why and where hasn't yet been easy to get any answers for.

    Joylove has mentioned that Inpa uses the DS2 language. I'd like some more information on this if it easy to get...or suggestions if that's more appropriate.

    Thanks

    from Across the Pond

    ron_of_orange 3:35pm PDT
     
     

  15.  
    #60
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    Script files are simple. No scripts = no communications. They are a load of (hex) files that contain the commands and response data. They are updatable without having to update INPA. You add or update your scripts to add new cars, new modules, new vehicle firmware support with new commands.

    DS2 is also D-bus, it's a proprietary BMW language for accessing the deepest functions of the module, deeper than OBD2 will go, giving sensor data and diagnostic routines. It can be spoken over a number of electrical interfaces as time has gone on such as ADS, K Line or D-CAN.
     
     

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