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    #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3estate View Post
    This is a very useful thread, im planning on turboing my 3.2 evo engine next year once funds are available and reading this makes me think its not going to be as hard as originally thought as long as i can find the right tuner!

    BMEP

    Just wondering but do you just tune the autronic system or can you supply them aswell as i could do with someone who knows what i need to get parts from as to be honest one concern of mine is that ill go out and get parts and have to be constantly swapping them for better stuff to make it work?!
    Start a thread with question on components and people will give advice.
    Take all advice with a grain of salt unless you trust the poster.
     
     

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    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by gstuning View Post
    Start a thread with question on components and people will give advice.
    Take all advice with a grain of salt unless you trust the poster.
    gstuning, (Gunni),

    Are you trying to contradict yourself in your comments or are you having a go at me?

    First you said to m3estate to start a thread with questions and “people will give advice” and then mentioned to take any advice I give with a grain of salt! What difference is there between my advice and “other peoples advice”?

    Obviously any advice on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt but I do believe that most people have enough sense to realize what is good advice and what is nonsense hence why I think you must be having a go at me personally for your comment? For what reason I have no idea! Perhaps I'm misreading your comment? as you haven't come across as being an A55 on the USA based forum. Care to expand on your comment?

    In my opinion m3estate has all right to ask on my thread as my project closely matches what he has in mind. It is totally up to m3estate to what he wishes to do with my or anyone else's advice......

    I'm surprised you didn't ask me the question about the head gasket on the Bimmer forum (USA) considering you are far more active on that forum with over 300 posts vs only 16 on this forum.

    M3estate,

    I have been tuning Autronic/Motec systems for 15 years. Being an Autronic dealer I am not allowed to sell ecu's abroad. I totally understand where you are coming from in that wanting to fit the right parts initially and then not having to shell out more money to fit better stuff.

    Other than Autronic i'm sure there are other ecu's that can do double vanos control. In my opinion if any tuner out there tells you that there is no need to have the vanos active when turbocharged they clearly don't know how to get the vanos working with an after market (stand alone) ecu or find it too difficult to tune the vanos hence trying to make it easier for themselves by saying “You don't need vanos when turbocharged”.

    Also the ecu SHOULD be tuned in TPS vs MAP vs RPM for load sensing due to the multiple throttles. Again most tuners will put this in the “too hard basket” and prefer to remove the multiple throttles and fit a single throttle body.

    If I am not mistaken the ViPec ecu can do all this and Mark Shead of MA Development in the UK is a ViPec agent. In fact a number of years ago when Mark came out to Australia to take on the Autronic dealership in the UK, he stayed with me for the week that he was here and I gave him a run down on tuning/Autronic software etc. In the event that you wish to stick to Autronic, give Mark a call and if need be I can email him my Cal.File (Map) and he can use that as a base to get your engine running and then he will have to tune the ecu to suit your engine as well as work out the optimum exh cam position in the vanos.
     
     

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    #43
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    I was not having a go at you. Not one bit.

    I was just telling m3estate that any advice on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt and that for him to get specific answers to his wants and needs a new thread might be better.

    I say this only because I frequent a number of forums and read them to better my understanding and hopefully pass along my experience to others, but I do see a lot of internet know-it-alls which people who are let´s say new to the game tend to believe without question. You for instance I do not consider one know-it-alls without actual imperical knowledge, I´ve read about how long you have tuned and what you have achieved. That thread would then also help somebody else later perhaps.

    Mark Shead is my work neighbour and uses our dyno. He literally is in the workshop next to ours.

    The reason I didn´t ask in your US thread is that I just didn´t notice any talk about different or standard head gaskets.
     
     

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    #44
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    Fair call Gunni,

    Your post was open to interpretation and I guess I took it the wrong way.

    I agree with you Re; the “Internet know it alls”. This is the main reason to why I have chosen to not be so active on internet forums as I was in the past. I believe that most information/advice passed on the internet is someones “thoughts or opinion” on how somethings works or should be done rather than advice from someone that actually is doing or has done the thing in question. Vanos control with a boosted engine is a good example. The amount of BS I have read on internet forums regarding this topic is so obvious that people have not tried it to know the truth.

    I believe that the people that have a small amount of knowledge are far more dangerous to themselves or perhaps I should say more dangerous to their engines than the genuine people that don't know and seek advice and sadly it is these people that are the ones that you refer to that end up with mis-information.

    Mark is a good guy. Does he use your dyno often or does he still prefer to do his tuning in car on the road?

    At this stage my engine is totally 100% standard internally including the OEM head gasket and OEM head bolts with the exception of one heat range colder plugs. I have no doubt the stock engine can handle more boost (with the correct tune) and I am waiting on a set of injectors to arrive from the States that I had sent away to get modified (I prefer to use a particular spray pattern) so I can increase the boost a little more.
     
     

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    #45
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    Alright chaps........

    ......wouldnt it be a lot more constructive to put BOTH your brains and advice together to come up with suggestions and answers, rather than arguing?

    Amos
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMEP View Post
    Fair call Gunni,

    Your post was open to interpretation and I guess I took it the wrong way.

    I agree with you Re; the “Internet know it alls”. This is the main reason to why I have chosen to not be so active on internet forums as I was in the past. I believe that most information/advice passed on the internet is someones “thoughts or opinion” on how somethings works or should be done rather than advice from someone that actually is doing or has done the thing in question. Vanos control with a boosted engine is a good example. The amount of BS I have read on internet forums regarding this topic is so obvious that people have not tried it to know the truth.

    I believe that the people that have a small amount of knowledge are far more dangerous to themselves or perhaps I should say more dangerous to their engines than the genuine people that don't know and seek advice and sadly it is these people that are the ones that you refer to that end up with mis-information.

    Mark is a good guy. Does he use your dyno often or does he still prefer to do his tuning in car on the road?

    At this stage my engine is totally 100% standard internally including the OEM head gasket and OEM head bolts with the exception of one heat range colder plugs. I have no doubt the stock engine can handle more boost (with the correct tune) and I am waiting on a set of injectors to arrive from the States that I had sent away to get modified (I prefer to use a particular spray pattern) so I can increase the boost a little more.
    Your details of engine performance inspire confidence in the work I´ll be doing later. I had discussed the S50B32 to some people and their advice was the it detonates easily. And that 550-600 S_HP would only be achievable even with forged internals and 8.5:1 compression. But your information definitely tells me I won´t have any problems running more then that on pump fuel.

    Mark uses the dyno now and not the road.

    What is your experience in tuning vanos , is it in any way different then normal cam timing tuning on NA engines?
     
     

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    Hey Mate.

    Very interesting thread. After reading it several times and laughing out loud nervously on more than one occasion, I realise how far far away i am from understanding what it takes to boost an engine. I'll just have to keep reading but ithink it might take a while. LOL.
    Thanks guys and keep it up, you are an inspiration.

    Cheers

    Donut.
    Last edited by DonutMan1; 29-05-2010 at 21:55.
     
     

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    #48
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    Amos,

    I totally understand where you are coming from however I don't consider gstuning and myself arguing. There was a misunderstanding (on my behalf) and thats all there is to it really, no arguing here from my point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by gstuning View Post
    I had discussed the S50B32 to some people and their advice was the it detonates easily.
    You should have asked these people if they have actually tuned one or is that there “opinion”? And if so, at what rpm/throttle were they referring to that it would det and what form of knock monitoring device they were using?

    Before I stated my project I was told all sorts of stories however once I probed them for info on the particulars they didn't seem to have a definitive answer and that to me indicates that they didn't actually try or do what they were referring to and that it was no more than their opinion on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by gstuning View Post
    What is your experience in tuning vanos , is it in any way different then normal cam timing tuning on NA engines?
    Not sure if I understood what you were asking exactly? Do you mean how much did the vanos angles differ from the oem setting in n/a form vs what I ended up in n/a form or what the difference was between my n/a figures and turbocharged figures?

    Not sure if I had mentioned it in this thread, but I had the SM4 running the engine in n/a form for a while before turbo-ing it. I wanted to educate myself on the characteristics of the vanos before I jumped in and turbo-ed the car.
     
     

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    #49
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    What I meant about the vanos tuning is did you find you tuning the cams in the same way when you tune cams on na engines.

    i.e high rpm means advanced cam and retarded exhaust
    Only one tuner in this country has access to the vanos tuning on the oem ecu´s for S50´s and S54´s. He´s the one gaining the most, his revolation of how to achieve this however came as no news to me in terms of standard cam tuning.

    Very recently I read from a tuner of a different engine that he had actually seen gains from lowering the overlap extremely,. and this goes against what I know of cam timing and higher rpm´s. So I was wondering what your experiance has been

    I´m leaning to the situation that the people telling me about the S50B32 tuning had infact only had a problem once, solved it with E85 fuel and then never ever looked back at the problem.
     
     

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    #50
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    My S50B30 has vanos control on the Int cam only, not the Exh, so any comments I make regarding the Exh cam timing will only be based on my opinion, not experience.

    The Int cam timing was similar (to n/a vs turbocharged) at throttle angles less than 10%. At throttle angles above 50% and below 3,500rpm I found that if the cam timing was as advanced as the n/a cam timing figures I couldn't run any decent amount of ign advance (the engine would det) due to elevated dynamic compression with the OEM 10.8 comp plus boost and advanced cam timing.

    I reluctantly chose to make the engine mechanically less efficient (via non optimized cam timing) at anything above 50% throttle and below 3,500rpm simply to allow me to run a “decent” amount of ign advance to prevent the EGT's increasing and giving the Exh valves/seats a hard time. If I had cam control on the Exh side like a S50B32, then I would have tried delaying the Exh valve opening point to see how much it decreased the EGT's and how it would have effected the power. I have no doubt that with a built engine running lower static compression that the same power (if not more) can be had at wot/below 3,500rpm compared to the high comp when the Int cam timing can then be optimized while being able to use a decent amount of ign advance.

    If the engine is going to det, it certainly is easy to make it det at wot below 3,500rpm with the OEM high comp plus boost with very advanced cam timing so I would be cautious in this area while tuning. Also bear in mind that my findings are based on the fuel we have here in Australia and my understanding is that our fuel is crap compared to other countries.

    Personally, at the stage and the power level I am at I'm not concerned about the stock pistons, piston ring lands nor the stock head gasket as being weak links. Believe it or not, I am more concerned about retaining too much heat in the chamber considering the OEM piston to bore clearance and piston ring end gaps as well as trying to find out what the engines max BMEP limit is before starting to stretching the OEM head bolts.
     
     

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