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  1.  
    #11
    Nat
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    Thanks...I think the way foward for me is to enjoy the car 'as is' and then go for a E46 M3. If only my garage was bigger.........Mmm
    What the hell?
     
     

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  3.  
    #12
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    lol i know what you mean, i will eventually turbo mine but its a 3.0
     
     

  4.  
    #13
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    Thanks jons.

    Nat,

    I’m not sure what you mean by “3.2 Evo”? Yes my car is the 3.0lt. I’m new to the BMW scene only purchasing this car in March of 08 so am not aware of the correct terminology used to distinguish one model from the other. To the best of my knowledge here in Aus we had the E36 M3 3.0lt (S50B30) and the 3.2lt (S50B32). I don’t believe we here call the 3.2 an “Evo” but if that is what your question is in regard to I simply don’t know how much more power a 3.2 can handle over a 3.0. TBH I don’t even know the limits of the 3.0 hence why I am very cautious in my tuning.

    I have asked on other forums and where ever I can to try and know what is the most boost anyone has run threw a totally standard engine with reliability and longevity and have never had a straight up answer. The people that have passed on there “thoughts” never seem to have any data to back up there claims! One “Performance Workshop” have told me that they ran 1 Bar boost threw a totally standard 3.2lt engine however there onto their third engine already!!!!! On another forum I read that someone claims that they had machined down the stock pistons and ran 22psi and Nos and made some stupid amount of HP however I don’t believe that for a second. They mostly speak out of their behinds and it seems that the only method to finding the internal strength limits of these engines in standard form (head gaskets, pistons, rods etc) is by careful tuning and self-education/experimentation.

    mboon,

    Getting the turbo to work with these engines isn’t really as difficult as what is originally thought nor do I believe it is the tricky part regardless of it being a 3.0 or 3.2. The 3.2 engines would require far more tuning time due to the double vanos no doubt. I suppose it does come down to the people/talent (Fabricators, welders etc) that you know. I personally think the trick part is the engine management/tuning. The tuning will always literally “make or break” the engine.

    I have a friend that is trying to decide wether to turbo or supercharge his 3.0. We have considered purchasing a second hand engine and dropping that into my car and tuning it properly (No Det, correct A/F etc ) and at first pushing it to 10psi and drive it around “enthusiastically” for a while and then elevate the tune to 12psi and repeat to really find out if any internal engine parts will fatigue. Personally I don’t think that there would be any sense in running any more than 12psi boost on (Australian) Pump fuel as with the high comp theses engines run there would be barley any Ign advance left and you would be simply elevating the EGT’s with very little yield in power. The ONLY thing preventing our “testing and evaluation” is the fact that a 3.0lt will set us back an expensive $10K from a wreaker/breaker!
     
     

  5.  
    #14
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    Looking good so far. I like you have added turbo chargers to everything from a pencil sharpener to a bread slicer over the years. Great way to get a bit more grunt out

    How do you cope with fuel pressure though with the twin in tank pumps? I have always had it surging and rising at low engine speeds with twin 044s on stock end feed rails, found a better way was to run a 15-22v inverter rising voltage on boost pressure, this give support for just over 800bhp from a single 044. It also protects the AFRs from fluctuating as electrical load rises on the alternator, or the alt fails, not to mention keeping the fuel cooler. Not many people get to the bottom of the idea that a fuel pressure regulator is a proportional amplification device and many engines die as a result. Your ecu monitoring 2 pressure transducers will be a safe guard against it though.

    How did you calculate the pipe sizes for exhaust and shape/volume for the inlet manifold? Boyels law and a few hours with a sheet of paper found me an extra 20bhp and 50lbs on the same set up by simple tuning the sizes to create the best scavenging effects. Intake temps also dropped from 35 to 29 degrees C on a day when the ambient temps where identical.

    Do you map your own stuff too? I have used a load of Motec ecus but not autronic, how do you rate the 2 side by side?

    Oh, stock sods are fine for big power by the way as long as you don’t go silly with the revs. Crank I don’t know. Pistons depend how well the map is set, but a nice set of Mahle pistons would be a nice addition to any engine IMHO


    Good to see some one doing it not chatting for a change too
     
     

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    BMEP (21-04-2009)

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    #15
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    Amazing! dream project! how scary is your costing so far?
     
     

  8.  
    #16
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    Danm54,

    Thanks. Costing isn’t so bad as far as labour content is of concern as I do most of the work myself.

    Mrbarry,

    Funny you mentioned about the fuel pressure oscillation problem. Clearly you too have been there and done that. I’m running a SARD fuel pressure reg and initially I thought that the Sard was causing some sort of a restriction and was not able to return all the fuel that the twin pumps were flowing as no matter what I did I could not reduce the fuel pressure below 3.6 to 4 bar at idle and like you mentioned the fuel pressure was not consistent. I removed the reg all together as a test and the fuel pressure would still remain at 3.6 bar. I traced the problem to the “Syphoning” tube BMW use in the fuel tank. The purpose of the syphoning tube as the name suggests is to siphon the fuel from the passengers side to the drivers side due to the fuel return line draining back into the passenger side however the fuel pump/s are in the drivers side. The fuel flow from the twin pumps simply over powered the syphoning tube and therefore created a restriction and would randomly elevate the fuel pressure dependant of the level of fuel in the tank. To counter react this problem I simply added a “Tee piece” just prior to returning the fuel into the passenger side and the Tee piece’s other side would drain any excess pressure back into the drivers side. I monitored this set up for a number of weeks to make sure that I didn’t end up with a full tank on the passengers side and an empty tank on the drivers side (The pumps side). I monitored this by measuring the resistance on each fuel level sender with a multimeter. In the end I required a 3mm restrictor in the “relief line” that was draining back into the drivers side. The set up works brilliantly and once I’m down to approx 20lt of fuel the passengers side is almost empty and the drivers side contains the 20litres.

    Yes I have been Pro mapping/tuning Autronic/Motec ecu’s here for well over a decade. Both ecu’s were originally developed by the same Man. I personally believe it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other between them. Motec does tend to have a few more “bells and whistles” however you pay handsomely for this luxury.

    I know exactly by what you mean by the people that seem to talk the talk but not walk the walk and further more seem to have claims that they can not give a definitive answer to. Thanks for your compliment.
     
     

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    #17
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    Just a question, but is it easy to diagnose a problem when doing something like this? for instance how long did it take you to solve the problem with the fuel tank bit?
     
     

  10.  
    #18
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    Fault finding is fun I always find Going thru data logs and looking to see annomolies can take seconds or days. I also had issues with twin pumps over flowing at low injector duty and the fuel rail restricting the flow as well as the return lines, this sends fuel pressure high. But each problem is individual. I have a background of this sort of work and do it all day every day for a living. You just get used to it.
    I find it very rewarding truth be told, overcoming problems is like a pat on the back I am sure BMEP agrees.

    So the Autronic ecus then, 32x32 maps, trim tables for boost control etc? Would be a new alternative for my builds, Motec ecu is £1100 plus sensors. Only thing with Motec I know how well it performs, reliability is perfect. Even things like the dash displays and AEM displays all just plug in via CAN or RS232 and work first time every time, never comes up data errors, connection errors..... so many others fall over once you want more than a fuel and timing table.
     
     

  11.  
    #19
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    Mboon,

    Realistically fault finding will be dependant on the experience of the operator. To narrow down on the irregular fuel pressure problem I simply used a process of elimination to find the fault. By bypassing the fuel pressure reg totally I knew the problem wasn’t there and just continued following the path of the fuel till it became obvious that the fuel flow with the dual pumps was over powering the OEM syphoning tubes flow capabilities.

    When we modify cars it comes as second nature to always expect something to give you a little grief. It comes with the territory and as Mrbarry mentioned, it is fun as well as frustrating at the same time!

    Mrbarry,

    The Autronic SM4 has 32x16 user defined fuel and ignition tables with multiple user defined correction tables for fuel and ignition as well. The Autronic is also compatible with plenty of after market Dash Displays. I am using a DashDAQ with the SM4, this dash displays all the data you can normally see on the laptop. Intake/Water temps, Throttle Position, Battery Voltage, Road Speed, Vanos Cam position, Manifold Pressure/Vacuum, Ignition Advance, Injection Time….etc etc etc. I have also fitted an Innovate A/F gauge where the OEM temp gauge was as I now have water temp displayed on the DashDAQ and the Innovate A/F meters second analogue output feeds back into the SM4’s O2 input allowing closed loop operation at light throttle as well as data logging the A/F ratios into the SM4’s internal data logger.



     
     

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    Boostist (28-04-2009)

  13.  
    #20
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    Superb work mate

    Cant believe I missed this thread.

    To answer a few others questions, the 3.2 evo (S50B32) can certainly be turbocharged but there is much less space between the bore walls for cylinder head gasket sealing and this is its achilles heel.

    BMEP - have you run it down the 1/4 yet?

    Looks a great project...

    ps// How did you calculate the volume of the intake plenum? it looks a fair bit smaller than the stock item
     
     

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