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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by boostist View Post
    You seriously don'twant to lose the vanos unless you want to lose a LOT of driveability.

    even with turbo.

    Why not use the emanage or even a stock DME tune?

    Nick G in the US will tune yours remotely for sure...its not cheap tho. and a pain to get retuned.

    see some people say keep the vanos and other say ditch it tbh i dont think ill miss it that much.

    as for the emanage or dme hassel. i didnt see one person who got the emanage to work properly and was happy with it and the stock dme is hard to tune with bigger injectors and id have to run the maf
     
     

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    #22
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    penny wise and dollar foolish

    dont be silly man, spend the money on a proper system and get it done right the first time
    otherwise your gonna spend a ton of money and even more time fighting with systems that arent capable of giving you what you want

    and beleive me you want vanos, your talking about the ability to retain 100Nm in part throttle

    if your building a race car then lock it, but if you want to drive this thing around
    and if you want to enjoy driving it around, spend the money and keep the vanos
     
     

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    #23
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    its easy saying spend the money but the autronic cost was like 1800ish that i dont have vrs the 700ish for the emarald k3. mind you i could get the dta s80 pro for around 800 that apparently according to dta can run the vanos system. one other issue i have with it is tuners ability to tune with vanos in the uk .
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by topshotta02 View Post
    penny wise and dollar foolish

    dont be silly man, spend the money on a proper system and get it done right the first time
    otherwise your gonna spend a ton of money and even more time fighting with systems that arent capable of giving you what you want

    and beleive me you want vanos, your talking about the ability to retain 100Nm in part throttle

    if your building a race car then lock it, but if you want to drive this thing around
    and if you want to enjoy driving it around, spend the money and keep the vanos
    Agreed!

    The Dta is a very good system. more powerful than the Emerald IMHO. Any tuner worth being called a tuner will be able to tune the single vanos.
    Don't let people con you into thinking its more complex than it is. Dual variable vanos does prevent a tuners challenge tho!
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by boostist View Post
    You seriously don'twant to lose the vanos unless you want to lose a LOT of driveability.

    even with turbo.

    Why not use the emanage or even a stock DME tune?

    Nick G in the US will tune yours remotely for sure...its not cheap tho. and a pain to get retuned.

    i dunno.
    Lots of racecars in the YUk run without vanos!
    Maybe race cars is the word here tho? But I reckon with a turbo the torque will be massive anyway so you wont have to rev the knackers off the motor to get her out of the hole
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by boostjunkie View Post
    i dunno.
    Lots of racecars in the YUk run without vanos!
    Maybe race cars is the word here tho? But I reckon with a turbo the torque will be massive anyway so you wont have to rev the knackers off the motor to get her out of the hole
    It is much better to keep the vanos if at all possible......
    Torque boost for sure
     
     

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    Motec will tune the vanos, im doing it as we speak, just need to fine the right settings....any one know idle points for the cams? All i need is idle points and then ill go from there.
    98 European E36 M3 (SMG) Blue, Weichers Strut Tower bars, H&R sway bar kit, custom exhaust, Stoptech ST-40 332mm pagid blue and yellow's on track, SaBelt 6 point belts, KW Club Sport 12kg/mm F&R. Motec M600 with cam control option for Dual Vanos. Turbo build after n/a tune is complete and vanos control is mastered.

    http://www.underpressuregarage.com
     
     

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    I have to agree with going with the VANOS you paid for that engine with a product like VANOS that is brilliant at what is does,

    The only way i see it working without VANOS is if you are FI build your own kit using a variable vane turbo, This is when i do think that VANOS is the made a little redudant as the turbo essentially is doing the same thing but more effective cylinder filling,
    Spend the money on good turbo system that will essentially give you the full benefit of removing VANOS,

    I see the argument of 'not be able to run with a standalone' a bit of a contradiction, if you are spending money to put FI on your car then surely the extra benefits of paying a little more to have a standalone which can make full use of your VANOS is surely better?

    Basically these whole lot must depend on what power output you are looking for ?
     
     

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    #29
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    Oohh..

    variable vane turbos!
    Now theres a whole can of worms

    its ok for a big manufacturer like Porsche to run them...but if you try it custom it seems fairly pointless, what with needing to map the car to run it and whatnot
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by topshotta02 View Post
    ummm... the ability to run a standalone with a map sensor
    That is not truth. You can easily tune your European version of S50 by a standalone with MAP sensor and remained Vanos. People remove Vanos to facilitate tuning and to decrease amount of problems and things which must be tuned. You only have to use the stepper outputs of a standalone ECU to control switching 12VDC to the VANOS solenoids. It will require mapping it to an RPM and load based table to get the proper cam positioning for the desired torque output.
    Fully-variable Vanos can help the turbo make maximum boost faster, make more torque in the midrange, and make more top end power. Daily driving is much improved. Even when you gently push the acceleration pedal down, you will enter the boosted area. In my euro-spec M3T at 5th gear and at ~1 800 I have 0.35bar.
    Even if you drag race, you use a band that is 3k of RPMs wide, and you could either use the vanos to spool the turbo before that, or use it to make two narrow peaks in that 3k rpm range. Basically, if you can tune the VANOS and cam timing you will always make more power, even from 5k to 7.5k of RPMs. Granted you might have to restrict VANOS motion or alter cam timing, but the ability to alter cam timing, overlap, and lobe separation angle will always make more power as long as more than one RPM is entertained.
    A locked and a non-locked motor is able to make the same maximum number of horsepower at one RPM. If more than one RPM is involved, the optimized fully-variable Vanos will always make more power and torque.
    I would like also to tell that VANOS is not only a power adder. If it is tuned properly, it will greatly assist in daily, around the street driving. This is the main reason it is not just an RPM based map in the DME.

    On bimmerforums com I found a list od standalone ECUs that can control six-cylinder double Vanos:

    Autronic SM4
    Motec M600
    Motec M800
    Motec M880
    Pectel SQ6
    Pectel SQ6M
    Pectel T10S
    DTAfast S60 Pro
    DTAfast S80 Pro
    DTAfast S100 Pro
    All Bosch MS ECUs

    To this list you can also add the Haltech.
    Here you can see a dyno chart of my friend’s turbocharged European version of S50B30 with locked camshafts at point 0. See how the power and torque decrease after 6k of RPMs despite of installed twin-scroll GT37.
    Last edited by maleckis; 30-04-2008 at 13:46.
     
     

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