ALL E90 335i - Turbo wastegate rattle. PROBLEM & FIX

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Thread: ALL E90 335i - Turbo wastegate rattle. PROBLEM & FIX

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  1. ALL E90 335i - Turbo wastegate rattle. PROBLEM & FIX 
    #1
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    Johncar's Car Details
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    E90 335i
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    Hi All,

    Sorry Ive never been on here before but I hope this helps someone.

    I have a pair of BMW 335i Twin turbos off and on the bench here and I think I can explain exactly whats going on.

    100% Standard 2007 '07' BMW 335i M Sport Saloon Auto, 1 Owner, 49,000 miles, Full BMW Main Dealer Supplied and Maintained

    I have a video which I will upload so that you can see the extent of the problem. Once you have seen this video ask yourself who should be paying for this problem and let me know.




    The full extent of the problem is as follows;
    You can here rattleing from what sounds like the wastegate actuator arms and sometimes a tinkling as you come off the throttle similar to the sound of a turbine blade? (You don't always get the tinkling).

    The wastegate rod as it comes of the actuator has some play at the joint where it meets the wastegate arm that goes through the body of the turbo connected too and activating the wastegate open & close.

    BMW have a PUMA with a solution which is to add a small part to the joint basically taking up the slack & cure the rattle (Possibly a new joint Iam not 100% sure, However!!

    Now the turbos are off we can see the full extent of the problem.
    Yes the joint is poor, its elongated where the pin joins the two pieces together, but grab a hold of the arm end where it goes through the body of the turbo and the worn freeplay through that bush is astounding, that too has elongated and is rattleing around. Then look inside the exhaust exit where the wastegate valve cap is and even the wastegate is rattleing around, you can see the polished mark where the valve seats, however they are so badly worn that the polished mark where they close is only polished half way round the seat, its because there not fully closing!! (this sometime causes a 30FF fault code, low boost pressure & possibly restricted performance although sometimes intermitently).

    Basically what your all experiencing is turbos that are worn out on the exit wastegate side of each of the two turbos. The combined slack from the actuator arm linkage through the wastegate arm bush in the turbo body to the play in the wastegate valve means that the actuator arm moves around 5mm before it can take up all that slack, so they can't operate correctly. They turbos sound horrible, and eventually they will become very unreliable, Try to sell your car with this going on!!

    Ive been into my local BMW dealership and its been no help, so we took the turbos off & into BMW and showed them the problem and they said no help. The turbos are 485+ VAT each from BMW and mine are manufactured by mitsubishi for BMW. You also need all the gaskets and seals fresh oil and filter at about another 100+VAT and BMW wanted 10+ Hours labour at 135+VAT per hour.

    THE PERMANENT SOLUTION IF YOU HAVE THIS SAME PROBLEM IS:

    This is when you have removed the turbos from the car! (I got the turbos removed by my local garage who quoted me 350 to take them out and put them back in once finished) believe me its a big job, everything is in the way!!

    I have found a turbo specialist who has taken both my Turbos and has remanufactured the following parts correctly;
    Titainium bush through the turbo body for the wategate arm
    Remanufacturer the actuator rod to wastegate arm bush, of a greater quality.
    Remanufacturer the Wastegate valve, of greater quality.
    The guys are called 'Turbo Developments & Engineering'
    Telephone Adam 0208 560 3927.

    I am nothing to do with this company and completely un biased. They are just doing this job for me right now.

    I hope this helps, I will upload the 'before' video clip asap and when I get them back from repair the 'after' video.

    Kind regards
    John
    Last edited by Ronnie; 27-12-2011 at 21:37. Reason: Video Link Of Problem Before Repair
     
     

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  4.  
    #2
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    Paul 335i's Car Details
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    This presents an excellent alternative to people who are out of warranty or don't want to spend the odd 1500 to 2000 on two new turbos.

    I had both turbos replaced on my previous 335i under extended warranty - I was fortunate!

    P
    Current: 2008 330D SE Coupe Auto in Space Grey with:
    Pro Nav, BMW Online & Assist, Voice Control, Leather + Heated, Xenons, B-Tooth, All Electric Seats, Folding Door Mirrors, Privacy Glass, Tints, M Sport steering wheel & side skirts, Aero front lip spoiler, LCi rear lights, LUX V3 AE's.
    BMW Performance: gear knob, hand brake, pedals, gloss black grille.

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  5.  
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    r101's Car Details
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    It is a real tw@t of a job. We have only had to change one so far for that problem.
    Last edited by Kevin Whittaker; 20-10-2011 at 21:52. Reason: Language edit...
     
     

  6.  
    #4
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    kiteboy's Car Details
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    since one half and year, i have WG rattle on my 335i 07, stage 1.

    yesterday i put for the first time my BMW on dealer with TIS buletin, which mentioning the manufacturer default, so thy reprogram integrally the DME etc, now rattling is little less present only from 3500 rpm to 3000 rpm.

    i don't know what is the software version that they put, on my E92 335I 07 which was produced in 12/06.

    since i had the car, i say that it had never update on it. i think i will change the turbo by new with last reference, because like you mean it is a big job to remove both turbo (10 hours), and my car had 113 000 km so decide to ameliorate existing turbo , i think it is a litte risk i futur...so i think it is better to put new...?
     
     

  7. What can i do? 
    #5
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    CellyCell's Car Details
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    This issue doesn't seem to have a clear OEM fix, rather a process of elimination via the dealer, which out of warranty will severely dent your wallet.

    My issues started roughly a month after purchasing my 2006(56) 335i coupe from a reputable? dealer.

    The first problem i noticed was a high-pitched rattle type sound coming from the left exhaust on cold start-ups and medium revs (2-3k rpm) in the lower gears.
    I had an inclination as to the fault (exhaust baffler) so i decided to book the car to be diagnosed by my local BMW Dealer (Sytner M'head) to confirm and check the other prone-to-failure parts i.e. Waste Gate Rattle.

    BMW Diagnosis:
    (i) Left exhaust needs replacing (non fixable).
    (ii) Rattle coming from waist gate/Turbo, needs removing for further diagnosis.

    I spoke to the services rep and he asked whether i had a third party warranty which i did, but transpired that it only covered 'Sudden failures',
    "That door quickly slammed in my face" .
    I then went back to BMW and wanted costing for fixing the turbos, so first i wanted to know the history of my car i.e. Recalls, previous turbo replacement etc.

    I was then told that my Turbos had been replaced in 2009 (out of warranty) by BMW, He followed by saying he will contact there administrators and see if they can do anything.

    The next day as i anticipated, i was told there is nothing they can do due to the age of the car.

    So my questions, if anyone has any advice:
    (1) Pursue the warranty company and see if there is some kind of clause where they are liable.
    (2) Pursue BMW into liability, seeing as they replaced a failing part with a new part which failed 2 years later with the same fault.
    (3) Get the repairs done at my own expense, and hope the problem doesn't reacher.

    Any advice would be very much appreciated.
     
     

  8.  
    #6
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    Josh1a1h's Car Details
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    The only sensible idea i can come to is that, when owning such a car... you ALWAYS have extended warranty.
     
     

  9.  
    #7
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    The_MC's Car Details
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johncar View Post
    Hi All,

    Sorry Ive never been on here before but I hope this helps someone.

    I have a pair of BMW 335i Twin turbos off and on the bench here and I think I can explain exactly whats going on.

    100% Standard 2007 '07' BMW 335i M Sport Saloon Auto, 1 Owner, 49,000 miles, Full BMW Main Dealer Supplied and Maintained

    I have a video which I will upload so that you can see the extent of the problem. Once you have seen this video ask yourself who should be paying for this problem and let me know.




    The full extent of the problem is as follows;
    You can here rattleing from what sounds like the wastegate actuator arms and sometimes a tinkling as you come off the throttle similar to the sound of a turbine blade? (You don't always get the tinkling).

    The wastegate rod as it comes of the actuator has some play at the joint where it meets the wastegate arm that goes through the body of the turbo connected too and activating the wastegate open & close.

    BMW have a PUMA with a solution which is to add a small part to the joint basically taking up the slack & cure the rattle (Possibly a new joint Iam not 100% sure, However!!

    Now the turbos are off we can see the full extent of the problem.
    Yes the joint is poor, its elongated where the pin joins the two pieces together, but grab a hold of the arm end where it goes through the body of the turbo and the worn freeplay through that bush is astounding, that too has elongated and is rattleing around. Then look inside the exhaust exit where the wastegate valve cap is and even the wastegate is rattleing around, you can see the polished mark where the valve seats, however they are so badly worn that the polished mark where they close is only polished half way round the seat, its because there not fully closing!! (this sometime causes a 30FF fault code, low boost pressure & possibly restricted performance although sometimes intermitently).

    Basically what your all experiencing is turbos that are worn out on the exit wastegate side of each of the two turbos. The combined slack from the actuator arm linkage through the wastegate arm bush in the turbo body to the play in the wastegate valve means that the actuator arm moves around 5mm before it can take up all that slack, so they can't operate correctly. They turbos sound horrible, and eventually they will become very unreliable, Try to sell your car with this going on!!

    Ive been into my local BMW dealership and its been no help, so we took the turbos off & into BMW and showed them the problem and they said no help. The turbos are 485+ VAT each from BMW and mine are manufactured by mitsubishi for BMW. You also need all the gaskets and seals fresh oil and filter at about another 100+VAT and BMW wanted 10+ Hours labour at 135+VAT per hour.

    THE PERMANENT SOLUTION IF YOU HAVE THIS SAME PROBLEM IS:

    This is when you have removed the turbos from the car! (I got the turbos removed by my local garage who quoted me 350 to take them out and put them back in once finished) believe me its a big job, everything is in the way!!

    I have found a turbo specialist who has taken both my Turbos and has remanufactured the following parts correctly;
    Titainium bush through the turbo body for the wategate arm
    Remanufacturer the actuator rod to wastegate arm bush, of a greater quality.
    Remanufacturer the Wastegate valve, of greater quality.
    The guys are called 'Turbo Developments & Engineering'
    Telephone Adam 0208 560 3927.

    I am nothing to do with this company and completely un biased. They are just doing this job for me right now.

    I hope this helps, I will upload the 'before' video clip asap and when I get them back from repair the 'after' video.

    Kind regards
    John

    John, did you get your turbos back on the car? How you getting on with them?
     
     

  10.  
    #8
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    ryan.grant's Car Details
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    N54 Engine warranty extended to 8 Years/82,000 Miles (Wastegates Only)

    BMW know about this as they have had to extend the warranty in the states to 8 years! Due to a court case.
     
     

  11. Fix rattle turbocharger noise 
    #9
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    penade's Car Details
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    Hello
    i buy recently a 335i from second hand market and i conclude that it is a gorgeous car. I heared also the rattle noise and, as an engineer, i decide to do a technical study on it. I conclude that it is possible to fix it but you need to add a specific device between the waste gate control valve and turbocharger actuator. The penomena come from the pulsation of exhaust gaz created by the 3 cylinder lay out for each turbocharger. The pulsations are so high that the displacement of the waste gate is out of specification. There is also an other root cause of this probleme, the turbocharger control systeme which stiffness is not correctly studied for the phenomena. So the solution is to reduce displacement by addiding a air volume which is calculated and measured for these conditions. It is what i have done.
    The method is completely safe and no risque for turbocharger or engine as it is correctly set up.

    By the way, all turbocharger will do quite same noise as the video without to be noisy. In fact, turbocharger waste gate system must have clearance to work witin high temperature conditon (> 900C). The difficulty is to be sure that rattle will not introduce wear of waste gate firstly and after reduce noise.

    best regards,
     
     


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