Newbie with E39 525D starting problem!!

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  1. Newbie with E39 525D starting problem!! 
    #1
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    Hello everyone..

    Browsed these forums for quite some time so I thought it was time to sign up..

    Anyway iv got a problem with a beemer..

    Iv got an intermittant starting problem..

    Its my mums and she kept moaning that it wouldnt start some mornings first time.. I went out to it after she moaned and it would start straight off.. But my dad went out just after I did and it wouldnt start.. Weird..

    Anyway I had a closer look, the pump isnt buzzing when you turn the ignition on, only sometimes, when you hear it buzz you know its gunna start..

    But now it wont buzz at all, I cant get the pump to kick in..

    Pump at fault? Or could it be something like the pump relay? Immobiliser etc..?

    Also noticed it doesnt want to rev up when its cold.. And if you rev it right round its restricted to 4000 RPM.. If you hold it there after about 5 seconds it will clear, a bit puff of black smoke out the back and it will rev right round to the limiter but when you let off and let it idle when it reachs idle speed it starts to splutter slightly then it clears again..

    Took it up the road when I eventually got it to start and its flat as a pancake, its an auto and when its gets into 3rd its sitting at 4000 RPM for ages before it will change up, and when you kick down, it changes down but doesnt pin you like it should..

    After all this I had the filter off and emptied it and the diesel came out black! So as a temporary measure I reversed the filter and blew it all backwards to get all the crap out, the diesel coming out is now clear, it seems to be a lot quicker and happier to pull but still not right..

    I come home parked it up, went back to it 10 mins later and nothing, cant get the pump to kick in..

    I had the pump under the passenger seat out, wired it to a battery and it buzz's away and pumps fuel like mad..?

    I took the fuel pipe off just BEFORE the middle pump and the rear pump in the tank is working, there seems to be one each side? Dont know if they are both pumps? But they both are buzzing anyway..

    I put the middle pump back on and it started again?

    I pulled it forward 10 yards, stopped it.. Went to start it again and nothing..

    But sometimes the pumps will kick in and sometimes not, I dont think it is the pumps at fault.. I think something is stopping them from kicking in..?

    Any advice? Its driving me mad!!

    Cheers,
    Chaz



    EDIT;

    Would it possibly be the crank sensor? If so where is it located on a E39 525D..?
     
     

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    matthew_henson's Car Details
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    It is worse when the tank is less than 1/4 full? that is the usual symptom if the lift pump is knackered, best get the fault codes read though a "low rail pressure as start up" fault indicates and pre-supply or lift pump issue.

    Also look for cam shaft and crankshaft sensor faults
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_henson View Post
    It is worse when the tank is less than 1/4 full? that is the usual symptom if the lift pump is knackered, best get the fault codes read though a "low rail pressure as start up" fault indicates and pre-supply or lift pump issue.

    Also look for cam shaft and crankshaft sensor faults
    It does it no matter what fuel is in it..

    Im thinking it could be an immobiliser problem now as mum has just decided to tell me its getting harder and harder to unlock with the key fob.. I think the two could be linked..

    Where is the cam/crank sensors on the 525? Do you know?

    I cant find any decent manuals on the E39 diesels.. I was looking at a haynes manual but its all petrol no diesel..
     
     

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    #4
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    There are a few ECU's in a BMW but the main one is the EWS (car) and DDE (engine) sometimes they get out of sync and need resyncing using software called BMW INPA is is easily available on ebay and can be used to resync the two ECU's.

    The keys codes are held in the DDE and the engine won't start without them. May also be a fault with the lock antenna system, the is a unit called the diversity system that receivers the radio and remote locking signal, it also fails.
     
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_henson View Post
    There are a few ECU's in a BMW but the main one is the EWS (car) and DDE (engine) sometimes they get out of sync and need resyncing using software called BMW INPA is is easily available on ebay and can be used to resync the two ECU's.

    The keys codes are held in the DDE and the engine won't start without them. May also be a fault with the lock antenna system, the is a unit called the diversity system that receivers the radio and remote locking signal, it also fails.
    Ahh I see.. Would that cause intermittent starting then..? As sometimes it will start sometimes not..

    Say once I get it started I can switch it on and off loads of times and it will start every time.. But if I walk away and come back 2 minutes later it wont start.. It does seem like the immobiliser is kicking in and its not de-immobilising..

    Did you mean this..

    BMW inpa Ediabas USB K+ D Can all BMW to 2010 | eBay
     
     

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    Update!

    Bit the bullet and went and bought a new pump from unipart..

    Fitted it.. Made no difference! Annoyed me a little bit.. But im sure they will accept it back if I ask nicely..

    So the car has now gone into the garage and is staying there overnight, tomorrow they will do a diagnostic test on it at some point and let me know what codes there is..

    It started perfectly after taking the new pump off and re-fiting the old one.. But if you switch it off and leave it for a few minutes it wont start again..

    It starts perfect first time if you wire the pump to a battery so I was thinking if the garage cant find the fault, I will just wire the pump straight to the ignition, that should sort it out!
     
     

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    Ok another update..

    Took it to the garage, they did a diagnostic and they said no codes are stored..

    But he said everytime he taps the pump it will start, so we put the new pump back on (as I took it off to take back) and it started perfectly and its been fine for about 3 days so we thought the fault was fixed..

    NOT.

    Its doing it again now.. Its 100% not the pump at fault, we pulled the pump plug off and put a multi meter to it and theres no power..

    Something isnt kicking in the pump..

    I did get it working yesterday, I kept turning the ignition on and off loads and then eventually I heard it buzz, went to start and it struck up..

    So I switched it off and did all that again, I turned the ignition on and it buzzed but this time I left the ignition on till it stopped buzzing, tried to start it and nothing, wouldnt go.

    Switched igntion off and back on, it started buzzing and I started it straight away..

    Im thinking theres a fuel pressure switch somewhere thats sensing fuel pressure and not kicking the pump in?

    What do you think? Starting to lose my rag with it now..

    Iv just got my elm scan set up so im about to go check the codes myself, if I find codes il be annoyed with the garage as they were 100000% sure it was the pump, obviously not!
     
     

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    Right another update..

    I took the fuel pump relay out and tested it, its fine.. (Im guessing it was the fuel pump one? Green one behind the glovebox?)

    Put the horn relay in place of the fuel pump one to try and it and it doesnt click..

    Put the horn relay back and it clicks..

    So there is no power going to the fuel pump relay nor the fuel pump..

    Something just isnt kicking them both in..

    I have a mate with a B10 Alpina and he said he had an ignition barrel switch fault, he had to have it replaced... Now im starting to think it could be this..
     
     

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    Ok well it just started again when I went to it, BUT the relay behind the glovebox that I thought was the fuel pump relay obviously isnt because it still isnt working/clicking but it starts?

    But I have found another green relay behind the OBD panel driverside which is clicking all the time and working fine.. Could that be the fuel pump relay? I think it must be..?

    Iv also been told by a lad I know who used to work for BMW that it could be a duff maf sensor?

    Iv unplugged the maf so it goes into a default setting but its made no difference on the starting problem, seems to rev up quicker now though so I think it may be deteriorated but thats not my worry at the minute lol
     
     

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    It shouldn't be the MAF but it does sound a bit like the pump relay.
    The tricky bit is finding which one the pump relay is as most fuse box diagrams are for the petrols.
     
     

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